YEAH!

Becasue Ron Paul is throwback crackpot who want to take us back to the 1700s! Let's have more big government so we can bankrupt America!

It's too late. America is already bankrupt. Now it's abyss time.

You'll come to understand the cost of unencumbered profits.
No body of government, no corporate or business entity has EVER sacrificed anything for this nation, or her citizens. They demand unchecked authority and profits. Neither give a damn about prosperity, beyond their own larded asses.

Watching it come apart is one of the greatest thrills I shall ever experience.

Part of Bush's plan to reach 45% approval ratings.

The idea will be to do what the Brits did, and several South American pseudo-countries a few years back: massively devalue the currency.

If I hold $100 in US debt worth $100 in my own currency and then America allows its dollar to slide, I will end up holding something worth only half what it was in real terms eventually.

I have just surrendered a freebie worth of half the value of my once $100 loan with nothing in return. America would love to pay that debt back when the time comes.

It all depends however on whether I dump my debt first and begin the run down of the currency to accelerate, or, if I swallow and allow the value of my debt to slowly settle lower and lower.

The overall impact is that everywhere and anywhere Americans receive foreign goods and services, those will appear to be quickly jumping up in cost. As the US is irretrievably intertwined with her trading partners, she is going to find they are equally ungenerous in return. They won't tolerate America pulling the rug out like that and respond in kind: trade barriers. Not necessarily those you can readily put your finger on, but effective nevertheless (how many Chryslers for instance sell in Japan or China lets say). That translates into the domestic job situation getting strangled as foreign markets dry up in knee-jerk response.

The upshot? A prolonged and accumulating reduction in the standard of living for the majority of Americans. Think Wiley Coyote out on that rock ledge. He thinks he's still standing on it while it plumets towards the canyon floor. Only as he peers out over the edge in response to "BEEP BEEP!" does he see his destiny rushing before him.

I'd do the beep beep with a Chinese accent but I don't know if doing a Rosie O'Donnell wouldn't make me vomit.

Regards,
etc.

can we just annex Mexico and Canada and call it a day? NAU here we come!!!

Good thing inflation is coming to inflate the debts we have away. Pretty soon those $20k balances on everyone's credit cards or the $9 trillion debt wont seem so bad... granted any of us actually gets a raise to go along with the inflation. Fat chance. I wish I was a fat cat republican with one hundred acres in Paraguay right now...

The number of dollars surpassed the number of stars in the observable universe long ago.

Look up Richard Feynman quotes.

Is it wrong of me, after reading TPS's post to have spent the last 5 minutes trying to do my best chinese "Beep Beep" impression?

I guess the surreal is more attractive then the reality.

George W. Bush -- WORST President in U.S. history

Bush is only the worst president for now. His successor will be the next worst president.

Bush is only the worst president for now. His successor will be the next worst president.

Unfortunately, I fear you are correct...

"His successor will be the next worst president."

Posted by Ray

That has to be the easiest prediction ever.

I guess the surreal is more attractive then the reality.

Posted by GustoGus

Got Reagan elected twice.

And I think it's "than."

Damn it's noisy.

They're doing lights out night ops.

Flying right over the house.

I don't say this from a partisan viewpoint because I belong to neither party (registered independent) but I don't know if we can manage another 10 months of Bush and his corrupt Administration.

NO other President in history has deliberately done everything he can since the took office to sell off our country piece by piece, to allow to be abandoned/ignored our federal rules and regulations that had been passed for our citizens' health, safety, and environmenal protection.

Bush has intentionally destroyed -- thru outsourcing he rewarded with tax breaks -- millions of U.S jobs and our manufacturing base -- solely to increase corporate profit and promote his goal for complete globalism.

Bush's treasonous -- and I mean treasonous -- agenda to destroy our sovereignty, our borders, and our court system with his full speed ahead agenda for an NAU (to be completed by his hand-picked corporate successor as the next President) should have Bush and his globalist cabal impeached immediately.

Bush outright lied (not "misspeak" but LIED) about our need to attack Iraq just so he and his pals in the Administration could make billions by squandering our Treasury in phoney war profiteering reconstruction contracts that have so far built almost zero.

I mean -- what does it take to impeach a man like Bush?
The Democrats are now nothing but a weak party consisting of a jig saw puzzle of multiple radical and selfish socio-ethnic special interest groups who could care less about our nation as a whole -- only their own particlar personal and selfish agendas. And the Republicans are not even a political party anymore at all -- they are a corporation with Bush as their current CEO.

What's happened to the country I love?

misspeak = misspoke

Ray, I think that the $9 trillion+ of actual issued bonds is ugly enough without having to toss in the future liabilities of Social Security and Medicare. But I do understand the severity of this...

I mean, if we're hemorrhaging debt like a sieve right now, imagine what deficits will look like when the boomers retire and start collecting on their SS and Medicare. And with this "credit crunch", how will the boomers finance their ungodly expensive medical procedures that they'll inevitably need? Will the health care industry simply lower their costs to help everyone? Ha!

We sank all of our (middle-class) wealth into burning up all of our own oil, to have three and a half cars per McHousehold, to watch the game on plasma TVs, and to adorn ourselves with myriad electronic doodads. Our upper-crust, investment-class wealth -- the crumbs of which the middle class has always lived off of -- is now finding its way overseas. We'd better figure out how we're going to live in a limited growth, limited consumption economy... and soon.

The government is going to have to learn to operate on less revenue or build about a dozen more printing presses because this society can no longer sustain this tax burden, a burden that yields very very little in terms of real services or benefit. When you tack on the costs of private health care and a college education, half of your product of labor is eaten up by these things (unless you make a metric assload of money or go without insurance or a college education).

If it wasn't for credit cards and home equity lines, this disposable consumer economy would have collapsed years ago and we'd have been all the better off for it, finding more efficient things to do with our wealth and resources besides "consuming" them.

Expect the printing presses to run 24/7. That's all they know how to do. The remaining question is how much will remain of the dollar before they are compelled to stop.

What's happened to the country I love?

It never was the country you loved. If it's any consolation, it took me 30 years to realize it was an illusion.

Not to get political here, but I wonder if the Retort has any trained economists who will weigh in here?

IMHO, I doubt any agency has the cajones to pull the ratings now. But in 10 years? Well, a lot has to change, but it seems possible. Again, IMHO, the USA is more leveraged than most 3rd world countries. But it's GDP is more robust. AA+ is a good rating, but it will hurt every assumption taught in B-school about the "risk-free rate of return."

Somehow, SOMEWAY, this is all Clinton's fault.

Bowa/SlicksterWilly/JJFJ/
Youknewwho et al

Wow! The United States of America is now the #1 highest in corporate tax. Why do you think a lot of
Chevy's and Ford's are built in Mexi-Canada! Too much tax to build them here!

An illegal immigrant can get a credit card with Bank of America.

I hear the flushing sound of our American economy.

What's happened to the country I love?

It never was the country you loved. If it's any consolation, it took me 30 years to realize it was an illusion.

Posted by Ray at 2008-01-12 09:11 PM

Took me only eight, but first I had to move accross the Atlantic Ocean... Gonna go tent shopping tomorrow.

It may not be the country you love ray and bella but at least Chris is fighting to make it that way.

It's too late. America is already bankrupt. Now it's abyss time.

Posted by Ray

better have the means to grow your own food..the coming depression will not be fun. I always wondered why my grand parents and uncles lived way below their means even when they had boatloads of money..the depression left an indelible scar on their psyche.

Being a sawyer and farmer.. i should be fine.

"the depression left an indelible scar "

Yup

My late mother-in-law was a rich woman, yet she wore her pencils down to the nub. Something about growing up in the Texas panhandle in the 20's and 30's. My mother was the same, she grew up in Slaton, Texas during those years.

Being a sawyer and farmer.. i should be fine


What kind of mill do you have?

better have the means to grow your own food..the coming depression will not be fun.


If it gets that bad, it won't be easy with human woodchucks roaming all over your field at harvest time.

According to the Times:

"The Bush administration and Congressional leaders, increasingly concerned about a possible recession, are moving closer to agreeing that an economic stimulus package is needed soon, Washington officials said Friday.

"A Republican familiar with the administration's thinking said Mr. Bush would present ideas to stimulate the economy, most likely in the form of tax relief, in his State of the Union message on Jan. 28. Mr. Bush will not decide on the details until he returns from the Middle East next week."

What it means: since cutting spending is a political no-no, the Washington crime family has to borrow to cover an increase in the deficit. It may look good to the know-nothings, but it only guarantees a higher rate of inflation in the future.

Ladies and gentlemen: these people are criminally incompetent.

"stimulus package" Sounds like Viagra for the economy!

Hurry.....VOTE RON PAUL

LMAO Jeff! FF!

The problem with erectile dysfuntion drugs is that if the erection lasts too long you have to go to the hospital. If there is too much stimulus in the economy, there will be inflation and we all get screwed.

If you notice your economy is erect for more than 4 quarters, call a doctor.

Wouldn't Viagra for the economy actually CAUSE inflation?

So WHAT? The majority is held by overseas investors.

We can just default on all debt, you know like Russia and most 3rd world countries, and start fresh!

Besides, when you value the assets held by the Government, you know, public land, we have outstanding loan to value

Well, soon we may have to sell a big chunk of the U.S. to the Chinese or the Saudis if we want to get out of debt. I think the Saudis have actually bought a lot of our assets already.

Or we could drop the dollar down to 10 cents and thereby pay up 10 cents on the dollar. Of course, your salary will only be 10 cents on the dollar, and gas will be 10 bucks to the dollar. Heating oil too, etc.

Wow. $53 trillion. What a long seven years it's been. Ever hear the one about the guy who jumped off a tall building, and as he went by the 30th floor, someone said "How's that working out for you?" To which he casually replied, "Well, so far, so good..."

Oh, No, the Chinese are gonna take our credit card away. Better have Plan B in mind, my fellow Americans, because working for those guys at 40 cents an hour is gonna be no picnic.
The Bush Economic Miracle Continues. All Hail Dear Leader.

Sounds like most of you are Ron Paul fans. Even if you don't know it yet.

**** Bush's treasonous -- and I mean treasonous -- agenda to destroy our sovereignty, our borders, and our court system with his full speed ahead agenda for an NAU (to be completed by his hand-picked corporate successor as the next President) should have Bush and his globalist cabal impeached immediately. *****

.......the NAU conspiracy is nonsensical.......

........we don't want Mexico (exept for Mr Bush).......

.......and Canada does not want us, they have a higher standard of living........

.......the only people who feel they should have unencumbered access to North America is Mexico and their honorary Presidente Senior Boosh.......

Is he a retarded circus chimp or an evil genius?

The unintended consequences of our short sighted "fearless (what me worry) leader" gets longer and longer. It will take decades to recover from Shrub's fuckups, yet Corporate profits remain solid. As spending collapses, those profits will dissappear also. We cannot sustain our standard of living by creating service jobs, as conventional pHD Economics wisdom purports. Once everyone is a maid, waiter or bartender there won't be customers with money to serve. The service sector has provided the only job growth during Shrub's tenure, yet only Paul Craig Roberts talks about the problem.

With the gutting of the middle class happening in NA, especially in the u.s., I sometimes view the growing gap between the very rich and the very poor as the creation a new type of 21st century monarchy, were very few have all including control the regulatory or gov't bodies, and the rest have nothing, with no legal or representative options. It is a bit of an extreme scenario, but if the course is not reversed...

Anyway, when the plebe has had its fill, things will change, just ask Louis XVI and his squeeze Marie-Antoinette...you just need to stop believing the daily serving of tripe that politicians and corporations offer up.

**** With the gutting of the middle class happening in NA, especially in the u.s., I sometimes view the growing gap between the very rich and the very poor as the creation a new type of 21st century monarchy, were very few have all including control the regulatory or gov't bodies, and the rest have nothing, with no legal or representative options. It is a bit of an extreme scenario, but if the course is not reversed...****

......not extreme at all and not really uncommon....

....it can take one or more generations (see Japan, Germany,China,Ireland)to build a strong economy, but it only takes a few years to destroy one(see Zimbabwe).......

.......the future of the U.S. is .....well it's gonna look a lot like Mexico ......

The answer is to get rid of the Fed and make our government smaller. Instead the Fed has been as active as it has ever been and the only choices we are going to have for President are going to be BIG GOVERNMENT goons. I don't see this problem going away for a while.

"""The answer is to get rid of the Fed and make our government smaller."""

Regardless of the size, I think you need a gov't that actually represents the interests of its constituents, not those of the corporations or special interest groups that put them in power.

Can't understand why there haven't been massive demonstrations on Pennsylvania ave, seems like the boat is showing signs of sinking, yet everyone is worried about getting a plasma or attacking yet another country as opposed to plugging the holes...beware the tipping point.

What kind of mill do you have?

Posted by American1st

woodmizer LT40 HD hydraulic

"The US is at risk of losing its top-notch triple-A credit rating within a decade unless it takes radical action to curb soaring healthcare and social security spending, Moody's, the credit rating agency, said yesterday."

If Moody's had any integrity they would have downgraded the rating a while ago.

"US's Credit Rating 'Under Threat'"

That's fine with me. Maybe if we can't borrow, we can't spend. Something's got to give.

Hey Pancho...you make good sense.

Early in the 20th Century several actions took place. The Federal Reserve, the Income Tax, Prohibition, and War propelled a massive debt, then dumped on the Germans, while we became the alter ego of the British Empire.

Wrong Turn if you're a Constitutionalist, and Right Turn if you subscribe to the Corporatist Agenda. We saw how that played out in Italy, though of course they were much weaker. It was also at this time that the Muslim Brotherhood formed to oppose British Rule in Egypt. Al Qaeda is an outgrowth of that movement, which was essentially nationalistic in origin, and transformed into a religious movement within the Cairo prison.

The Brits, filthy buggers all, called it Mercantilism. Licensed Privateers who dominated East Indian and Asia, then the Middle East after WWI.

In old law books there's category now renamed, but then known as Master - Servant. Its origins are in Common Law. There are Duties yet they evolved from the Feudal System. It's a tough nut to crack.

Americans bought into the Titles and Audiences with the Queen after the Civil War when military offices were common. An Industrial Aristocracy formed as oil and steel production became mechanized and integrated with the rail lines.

Our Treasury Department was pressured and John D. Rockefeller actually pledged his entire fortune as collateral to avoid a specie crisis. Oil and grain were our primary exports at that time, and the seasonal nature of agriculture created this boom bust cycle and the Brits were withholding credit.

So private banks took over the American Economy.

If you were to go to a credit counselor without your bills you'd be asked to come back. So too, we must ask for a True Accounting of the Nation's Debt and demand real facts and figures.

We must also take a regulatory approach to problems in the banking and financial sectors. Phantom Short Selling is inadequately policed and good firms are victimized by the practice. It's time to clean house.

Same for our senior membership in the Congress. If they intend to back Hillary's Something for All program then it's time for their retirement. Perhaps they could be "promoted" to Diplomatic status.

Send Barbara Boxer to France. They like Jerry Lewis after all. I'd love to have the full video of her "questioning" General Petraeus. The Artful Dodger has nothing on Babs, and I think the French would welcome her.

But others simply must go.

On both sides of the aisle.

***** "The US is at risk of losing its top-notch triple-A credit rating within a decade unless it takes radical action to curb soaring healthcare and social security spending, Moody's, the credit rating agency, said yesterday." ******

......sure......and the astronomical spending on that stupid war is revenue neutral........

I should have added into the list of changes in our government to limiting of Representation in the House to 435 members. If we'd stayed at the same ratio as 1912-1913 we would have over three times the members in the House that we do today.

This was a Gift to the Parties, and we would do well to expand our representation if we care about being heard in Congress.

there are 10,000 lobbyists hot on the trail of our 500 legislators and executives. They come with suitcases full of money. For every dollar they give they expect $1000 in return. Misinformed fucking taxpayers pay the difference. Misinformed by a corrupt media owned by the same interests that pay the fucking lobbyists.

But your TV and radio won't stopped calling it a "Democracy under God".

I repeat SO WHAT?


Gives us the option of defaulting on them down the road!!!!

The US is at risk of losing its top-notch triple-A credit rating within a decade unless it takes radical action to curb soaring healthcare and social security spending, Moody's, the credit rating agency, said yesterday.

Bull hockey, never going to happen, not in anyones life time ever.

Moody's soul enterprising business and organization is reliant upon the U.S. economy period.

Unless, there is money to be made to undermine the U.S. economy and allow larges sums to filter back to the Federal Reserve.