One more GOPiggy for the toaster, comin' right up.

Let's hope a response to his statement is requested at tonight's debate.

2003: McCain Said The End Is "Very Much In Sight." Senator McCain was asked "At what point will America be able to say the war was won?" McCain said there were oil fields to secure and "die-hards" to take care of but "it's clear that the end is very much in sight, and today I think Americans should be very proud of their leadership, their technology. There are still some foreigners, Syrians and others hanging around. But it won't be long. It will be a fairly short period of time, but this happens in wars. I'm confident that once they are confident the area is no longer a threat to the Marines and to our army troops that they'll start imposing discipline. In the meantime, we'll have a short period of chaos." [ABC News, Good Morning America, 4/9/03]

2005: McCain Said That Another Year Will Prove "Stay the Course" Is Working. "McCain believes that the U.S., and the cause of Iraqi independence, are moving forward in Iraq, a little bit at a time. 'I think the situation on the ground is going to improve,' he says. 'Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.'" [The Hill, 12/8/05]

2006: McCain's Top Political Advisor Says McCain's Support for the War is "Stay the Course, No Matter What." John McCain's top advisor explained McCain's support for the war and the impact it would have on McCain's future aspirations saying, "It is stay-the-course, no matter what. And if it dooms McCain, so be it." [Bloomberg News, 4/20/06]

2006: McCain Said That Iraq Was "On The Right Track" As The Country Moved Closer To Civil War. Speaking on the "Imus In The Morning" radio show on March 1, 2006, McCain played down the increasing civil violence in Iraq. When Imus remarked that Iraq "already looks like a civil war," McCain responded, saying, "I keep trying to look at the bright side of this because we have to because the consequences of failure are catastrophic. But the gathering of the seven most respected religious leaders the day before yesterday, calling for calm and calling for some kind of reconciliation, I think, was important. I think, at least we're on the right track here." [MSNBC, Imus in the Morning, 3/1/06]

(cont'd)...

My wife and I held McCain in high regard over the years as a man who stood for what he believed and bucked the party when he thought they were wrong.

His sycophantic support of W's folly has totally soured us on him for President. He showed poor judgement in supporting the war, and then in further boltering Bush's case for increasing the scope of our involvement without asking the tough questions like, "Mr. President, you said we'd be there 6 months ... tops. Your poor decisions have led to 4000 Americans losing their lives since our invasion. If the Shiite and Sunnit don't get their act together during the surge, we need to pull out of Iraq as soon as possible. Will you hold them to the fire to make our investment of lives and money come to mean something or not?"

THAT would have restored our confidence in him as a wise man.

Obama was the one who had it right all along. He isn't against war, just dumb wars. Andrew Sullivan (conservative) put it best:

"He is not opposed to the use of unilateral force, either--as demonstrated by his willingness to target al-Qaeda in Pakistan over the objections of the Pakistani government. He does not oppose the idea of democratization in the Muslim world as a general principle or the concept of nation building as such. He is not an isolationist, as his support for the campaign in Afghanistan proves. It is worth recalling the key passages of the speech Obama gave in Chicago on October 2, 2002, five months before the war:

I don't oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war ... I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars.

Nothing like pouring gasoline on a fire.
I think mccain should permanently move to Iraq, start doing foot patrols, spreading the word.

This man is a threat to my country.

Astonishing. In terms of "caring" about the welfare and safety of U.S. troops (who are also U.S. citizens), I think his statements constitute the most wantonly cavalierish utterance that I have ever heard escape the lips of a homo sapien life form. Scary? Try imagining such a man and such an attitude in closer proximity to the launch codes. Sleep well America.

I know that Mr. McCain is a decorated vietnam veteran and that he spent time as a POW and, I understand, was subjected to torture. It is obvious to me now that Mr. McCain has suffered mental and emotional damage from that experience. It is time for him to return to Arizona so that he can receive the psychiatric help that he needs. I am sorry that he has been so affected. While that is a tragedy in a man, it would constitute a disaster in a President. If he wants to fight a 100 year war, then let him do it in solitude, using little plastic soldiers who conduct operations in the privacy of his own fantasies, but not at the expense of the lives of my children.

What?

This is about oil right?

The oil is scheduled to run out in far, far less than 100 years.

Can you thing of one reason for the US to deal with these nut jobs for one second past that time?

When the dipstick hits the bottom, so do the Arabs.

Speaking of dipsticks, who would vote for McBane now?

With the exception of "no way to win Paul" all of the GOPiggies love the war for oil.

The democrats aren't talking about bringing the troops home. Well, they are talking about it, but they are talking about long drawn out strategies that call for permanent, police troops + private security/Blackwater, and special forces for the next ???? years.
Ron Paul says "We just marched in, we can just march out.".
Ron Paul is for bringing all US troops home from all over the world, and stop policing the world.
I agree!

"no way to win Paul"
Check out my post on today's nooner.

McCain says 100 years in Iraq and it sounds crazy but Hucksterbee thinks it is our duty to convert the entire planet to Christianity. It's a sad day when Mitt Romney is the sanest of the Republican candidates.

McCain says 100 years in Iraq and it sounds crazy but Hucksterbee thinks it is our duty to convert the entire planet to Christianity. It's a sad day when Mitt Romney is the sanest of the Republican candidates

!00 years in Iraq is A-OK sez the septagenarian Gopher?

Wow, and Spud thought his version of "Bomb Iran" was koo-koo!

Romney is sane sez Danni?

Mittens? The Guy in the magical underwear? Sane?

Actually, only Ron Paul is half sane out of the GOPher pack.

Each and every single other one of them are nuttier than a backed up sewer in Squirreltown.

Put a fork in McBane. He's done after this.

On the plus side there is still time fer him and Hillary to go grab an early bird special over at the local IHOP. They give good rates to seniors, doncha know!

Be Well.

I dont want to take a Liberal or Conservative side to this. As an experienced veteran, i must say John got it right. and it does and will always take lives to win, and that is very ugly but very true. To the person that thinks that every casualty is terrible, i love you and it is , but we are wrong. This is War and that itself should be "nuff said"

"nuff said"? I doubt you did anything in the service beyond filling out req forms.

war? there's no declared war!
win? there's been no definition of "win"!
with whom? an ideology? and then "100 years" later, do we pre-emptively invade Indonesia? Saudi Arabia?

Lovinamerica, I can't follow your logic. We son't have enough troops to invade, occupy, and sustain bases in every Islamic country. There's also this little thing about defending our own country's borders. Iraq is draining that capability.

Sam B. we have enough troops, that is not the problem. when will they be given the authority to show thier real strenght.

There's also this little thing about defending our own country's borders. Iraq is draining that capability.

Posted by SamBarber at 2008-01-05 04:46 PM


Buy a gun and some ammuntion then maybe you won't feel so awkward and helpless.


Pssst. by the time you call a cop to report rape you'll have already been violated. Get a grip. You're responsible for YOU and I'm not up to living with YOU nor paying someone to live with you to protect you. GROW UP.

The second amendment exists to empower you the ability to determine your own protection and not burden someone else with the falsehood that it's their responsibility to do so.

JO your doubts are unfounded. you dont know me, but i have defended our people and our flag.

KrispeeKritter thinks the second ammendment will keep America safe from illegal immigrants from Mexico?

How retarded is that?

Reality to Krispee ...White Courtesy Phone:

Has the 2nd Ammendment been repealed yet?

Are there uncounted millions upon millions of Mexicans living illegally in yer country now?

Are their trains going North in Merxico right now as we speak who have hundreds of Mexicans on the top of 'em all with one thing onb their minds ie. El Norte?

Are the National Guard really the International Guard?

This is War and that itself should be "nuff said"

~LuffAmericanStyle

This is an illegal, immoral, overly expensive, elective war that is ultimately unwinnable.

Cheney and Dumbya lied to a nation and to the world and created a clusterfuck of ginormous proportions.

They did this to enrich their few crony buddies and their elitist pals overseas.

This has cost over a trillion dollars so far plus the limbs, lives, and sanity of millions.

In the furtherance of this war BushCo have turned the US into a stinking torture state and made themselves War Criminals in the process.

They should be impeached, indicted, and imprisoned as such.

'Nuff sed.

Be Well.

PS: In so many ways America cannot afford to stay in Iraq for 100 years.

Not that this a any kind of great idea, but we do have the power and the people to invade every islamic country. Now just taling about Iraq, give our troops the authority to WIN a war. Stop being pussies. They are over there for all of us.

Dethspud, that is not the issue. whether this war is right or wrong. The issue is that we have hundreds of thousands of Americans in a nother country, defending us. and yet they are limited in what they can do, not by armourment, but by the media. You want them home quick, then let them do thier job. and quit whining when they do it perfectly

Spud says

"They did this to enrich their few crony buddies and their elitist pals overseas."

You're a retard. You left out to Teachers retirement, Police retirement, Teamsters, Electrical worker retirement, Carpenters retirement, Laborers retirement, etc. etc.

Or do you think they bury that money in a coffee can out in the back yard?

You don't even realize the stooge you make of yourself nor do those that spout the shit you do just like you.

Corportations are regulated by govt. = Govt. IS corporations.

You fu--n canadian tard.

it does and will always take lives to win
The war is over-ended in May 2003.
Define win-we got them a government, which we now don't want. We got them a Constitution that we now want changed. We got majority rule, which apparently we wanted before we didn't want it. All that's left is getting them to sell us their damned oil fields.
Is that your "Mission Accomplished".

1/The markets in Baghdad are safer than the ones in Indiana.
2/ Bomb, bomb bomb Iran
3/We'll be in Iraq for a million years.

John McCain't is the new Alzheimers Disease Poster Boy.

McCain never looks comfortable in his own skin. Way too old to be the Prez. I think those who would be the best are too smart to run for the job; hence, we are fucked no matter who wins.

Who do you work for SPUD?

I know that you've never OWNED any business nor been self EMPLOYED. Noone that has thinks or talks the trash that you do.

Let me guess. You're a canadian postal worker.

Am I close?

"Define win-we got them a government" why should anyone have to come up with a definition of that when OUR congress is showing itself so blatently. AGREE or DISAGREE withe the War in Iraq, do not pander.

Sorry if i misspell, was never a spelling bee champ.

Damn Kris, when you're not on religion, you make sense.

Corportations are regulated by govt. = Govt. IS corporations.

Ditto!

BTW Bacon, thier is only 2 choices....and they are WIN or LOSE. And OUR fighting force are winners, everyday nomatter how you count your numbers.

Awwww none of the libs want to pick up this ball.


From BarackObama.com (pdf):



All Combat Troops Redeployed by 2009: Barack Obama would immediately begin redeploying American troops from Iraq. The withdrawal would be strategic and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government.



Troops would be removed from secure areas first, with troops remaining longer in more volatile areas. The drawdown would begin immediately with one to two combat brigades redeploying each month and all troops engaged in combat operations out by the end of next year.



Residual Force to Remain: Under the Obama plan, American troops may remain in Iraq or the region. These American troops will protect American diplomatic and military personnel in Iraq, and continue striking at al Qaeda in Iraq. If Iraq makes political progress and their security forces are not sectarian, we would also continue training othe Iraqi Security Forces. In the event of an outbreak of genocide, we would reserve the right to intervene, with the international community, if that intervention was needed to provide civilians with a safehaven.



ANALYSIS: A little more specific than the plan at HillaryClinton.com. But this plan seems to be his solution for now (' all troops engaged in combat operations out by the end of next year'), and not what he would commit to as president (which is a pretty glaring omission.)



However, extrapolating this plan and applying it to his presidency... the commitment is specifcially a 'strategic and phased' withdrawal of combat troops. Of the 160,000 or so troops in Iraq, less than half are combat brigades. And while it's true that another portion consists of combat support, the wording 'engaged in combat missions' still leaves room for tens of thousands of troops to remain for an unspecified period. In fact, the 'plan' states outright... American troops may remain in Iraq or the region, without stating how many, or for how long.



And although I'm leaving out what each of the candidates says about diplomatic efforts and such, there is one aspect to Obama's diplomatic plan that could affect troop withdrawals:



From BarackObama.com



He would call for a new constitutional convention in Iraq, convened with the United Nations, which would not adjourn until Iraq's leaders reach a new accord on reconciliation. He would use presidential leadership to surge our diplomacy with all of the nations of the region on behalf of a new regional security compact.



ANALYSIS: Leaving aside that Iraq is a sovereign government, and that it is for the Iraqis to decide their internal affairs... this proposal is so fraught with the potential to reignite civil war to 2006 levels that it frankly boggles me. And a succesful convention itself would very likely require an increased combat presence as the Iraqi elections did in 2005, as any overhaul of the consitution would require Iraqis voting in a referendum.

Hi Ray,

You and I have more in common than we don't.

You'll come around to the right way of thinking once you drop the jimmy dean attitude.

Kris Pee Neurons-I know that you've never OWNED any business nor been self EMPLOYED. Noone that has thinks or talks the trash that you do.



You know two things: Jack and shit.

Jack left town.

All Combat Troops Redeployed by 2009: Barack Obama would immediately begin redeploying American troops from Iraq. The withdrawal would be strategic and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government.

A promise from a politician running for office ain't worth a spit.

You'll come around to the right way of thinking once you drop the jimmy dean attitude.

He sells pork now?

but we do have the power and the people to invade every islamic country.
Luvinamericabuthatingreality.

We don't have enough troops to do the job in Iraq and afghanistan. You want to try and invade a real country too?
I guess we could "invade" every islamic country, much as Germany "invaded" Russia. It's the winning part that matters though.

"A promise from a politician aint worth spit"
We can damn sure agree on that subject!

This is interesting. From Huffington:

"The NH Republican Party has pulled its sponsorship of the upcoming Fox News GOP candidate debate because of the network's exclusion of Congressman Ron Paul."

What about that south border fence McCain? How about securing OUR borders also?

How can America be secure with no fence?

Why should we be in Iraq for 100 years with an open border in our country?

Ron Paul 2008!

The issue is that we have hundreds of thousands of Americans in a nother country, defending us.

Sorry, but they are defending US. They are defending the interests of some very wealthy individuals and corporations.

If the US really wanted to defend itself, we would bring ALL of our troops home and secure our borders. If you keep poking a bee's nest, your going to get stung. Common sense, and yet, most idiotic Americans can't seem to wrap their brains around the simple truth..

Getting your ass snagged as a POW doesn't make a person presidential material. Thank you for your service but we'll keep looking for a better presidential candidate.

You can say and believe (our brothers and sisters) are doing some rich persons deed, and you would be wrong. but that is not the point!Our brothers AND sisters are in harms way, and we need to stop being diplomatc pussies, and let them do thier job. this would be over much quicker if thier hands werent tied.

We don't have enough troops to do the job in Iraq and afghanistan. You want to try and invade a real country too?

I disagree, we do have enough troops there, WE just have to stop being softhearted and let them do thier job

Who exactly is stopping them from "doing their job"? And would you mind defining what "their job" is, besides "winning" (which I'd like defined as well, but know better than to ask you).
Win like we did in Vietnam? Win like we did in Korea (troops only there half as long as McBane wants us to be in Iraq, and a partioned country)?

Whimps like you! media thats says everyday that our troops are harming ppl. when they are sitting on 10% of thier potential. I say do what you have to do, and get it over with! and yea if yer saying this war is like Vietnam, perhaps it is but only because it has been so politisied. if you actually want to win a war, dont limit your soldiers in any way.

that should read "when they are only using about 10% of thier potiential"

sorry ppl my goof

"that should read "when they are only using about 10% of thier(sic) potiential(sic)""

Keep trying.
You'll get it right one of these days.

Jeebus you really can't explain a damn thing, can you "lovinmyself"? Just shut the "F" up and go back to your case of Pabst.

Just for the hell of it consider how much money we would have to spend if we remained in Iraq for 100 years. John McCain is out of his mind, sorry to say that because I know he is a great American but still, it's true.

Zat, you have given me a very clear messaage. perhaps i am wrong to support our brothers and sisters in harms way

Danni, money is the key. it isnt about our troops..I think you are wrong on this one

I say do what you have to do, and get it over with!

OK, I'm down with that.

One question for you.

Who else do we have to kill to win?

ugly truth of war being told, that would be anyone or anything that stood in your way of victory

silver, great question! and the answer is ANYTHING in thier path. This war has been politized

I wonder if this were Vietnam, and he was still a POW if he'd be saying the same thing.

I dont want to take a Liberal or Conservative side to this. As an experienced veteran, i must say John got it right. and it does and will always take lives to win, and that is very ugly but very true. To the person that thinks that every casualty is terrible, i love you and it is , but we are wrong. This is War and that itself should be "nuff said"

Posted by LovinAmerica at 2008-01-05 04:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

You said it "takes lives to win".

Please, define "WIN".

Rudy: 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11...
McCain: POW, POW, POW, POW, POW, POW
Obama: CHANGE, CHANGE CHANGE, CHANGE
Mitt: $$, MORMAN, $$, MORMAN
Hillary: BILL, WOMAN, BILL, WOMAN

Folks, we are screwed.

"Corportations are regulated by govt. = Govt. IS corporations."
-Bacon

While I don't doubt the veracity of this claim, the fact that you used such a phrase to bolster your argument absolutely FLOORS me. How could mixing private interests with public service EVER be a good thing? Fuck's sake. I think you maybe missed that day in elementary school where they touched on the definition of the word corruption, and then missed every subsequent day in any high school history class where they gave example after embarrassing example of abuses of power similar, though on a smaller scale, to what is going on now.

When public servants make corporations rich, as opposed to giving corporations the ability to become rich, and in so doing become rich themselves through such a great practice as lobbying, not to mention the good-old kickback, you have a nation that deserves no respect. Someone recently said around here the politicians actually held day-jobs in addition to public service. Such an ideal should never have been lost, for now we've just given ourselves an entrenched aristocracy.

Now just taling about Iraq, give our troops the authority to WIN a war. Stop being pussies. They are over there for all of us.

Posted by LovinAmerica

If we can kill enough muslims we can steal their oil.

The GOP tries desperately, day in and day out to legitimize their recreational war in Iraq by comparing it to WWII, Korea Vietnam(?).

And a million years in Syria, Pakistan and the other 65 Islamic countries we could conjur up a war with. The US now has 900 bases or military presences abroad; no other nation can come anywhere near this figure. We are told it is to protect us. Why is everybody out to get us, apparently. We will keep this up until, like the British, we bankrupt ourselves with our blind prode and militarism.

We have been 50 years in Germany, Japan, Austria, Belgium, Italy so why not Iraq?

Notice that virtually all the deaths in Iraq over the last several months ( falling significantly) have been Insurgents and the Iraqi people - NOT the US Military.

So all of you that state we are making more terriorist by being there - if that is the case why are they not attacking us?

If we have bases in Iraq we would no longer need "fly over" permission to go after Syria and Iran from the wimps in Europe.

50 years to keep terriorist from owning significant oil fields? Fine with me. I will sleep easier knowing that if Syria or Iran steps out of line we can take it to them.

"100 Years in Iraq OK with McCain"

Or maybe it's like "you're sheeha will still stink" or "you'll always have the poor" or "Brittney Spears will always be a trainwreck"...it's probably just ice-cold reality and he's acknowledging it in his "straight talk express."

It would be fine with me if McCain spent 100 years in Iraq. It would be fine with me if he spent them anywhere other than in the White House.

Why do you think we spent billions building four of the largest military bases in the world in Iraq, along with the largest Embassy in the world?

I've been saying it for years now: We are going to have 35K+ troops in Iraq for longer then most of us will be alive...get used to it, regardless of who is elected president now or in 2028.

I don't think McCain will live another hundred years.

50 years to keep terriorist from owning significant oil fields? Fine with me. I will sleep easier knowing that if Syria or Iran steps out of line we can take it to them.

Right...because:

1. You'll be dead and won't have to pay for it.
2. You won't be going over there to "take it to them" anytime soon.


But Ron Paul is crazy for not wanting to be in Iraq for 100 years...OK.

McCain is a "F"ing idiot and cut from the same mold as Pat Robertson.

Republicans never cease to amaze me in their ability to support near pig headed mentally disturbed idiots.

I've been saying it for years now: We are going to have 35K+ troops in Iraq for longer then most of us will be alive...get used to it, regardless of who is elected president now or in 2028.

Posted by Rightocenter at 2008-01-07 01:49 PM

I don't like it one bit, but the US has rarely pulled out of one of its overseas bases that it has established since the Spanish American War...and the only one I can think of is Subic Bay and other bases in the Phillipines, which were originally established during that War. We left in 1992, but have been "invited" back since then.

I think we will have a presence in Iraq, such as envisioned by the Obama campaign, for many years. After all, as ROC points out, if we weren't planning on staying, why did we build those bases in the first place?

With regards to his statement on Iraq - taken way out of context.

I agree with him completely. As long as no harm is done, who cares if Americans are in Iraq?

They've been in Cuba for 100 years ...

With regards to his statement on Iraq - taken way out of context.

I agree with him completely. As long as no harm is done, who cares if Americans are in Iraq?

They've been in Cuba for 100 years...

Posted by David at 2008-01-08 01:44 AM

I would expect better from someone who has fought in a war.

South Korea has a clearly-delineated border secured by thousands of U.S. troops, backed up by the defending army who were sympathetic to the U.S. troops, and hundreds of thousands of mines to keep the sides apart. How is that model similar to Iraq?

Japan's military and government were soundly beaten down and ultimately surrendered after massive sacrifice and expense. There was dissent among some of the population about whether to accept surrender, but there weren't dozens of religious/tribal/sectarian factions looking for an opportunity to wipe out their competitors by civil war or ethnic cleansing. Again, how does he see this situation as proof that occupation will be peaceful?

You may not care, but you should acknowledge that the Iraqis do care. Poll after poll has shown that the vast majorities of Iraqis of all ethnicities and sects want U.S. troops out of their country. John McCain's insistence that they should stay in Iraq clearly shows his blatant disregard of the Iraqis' wishes for the complete withdrawal of the American forces from Iraq.

I would expect better from someone who has fought in a war.

South Korea has a clearly-delineated border secured by thousands of U.S. troops, backed up by the defending army who were sympathetic to the U.S. troops, and hundreds of thousands of mines to keep the sides apart. How is that model similar to Iraq?

Japan's military and government were soundly beaten down and ultimately surrendered after massive sacrifice and expense. There was dissent among some of the population about whether to accept surrender, but there weren't dozens of religious/tribal/sectarian factions looking for an opportunity to wipe out their competitors by civil war or ethnic cleansing. Again, how does he see this situation as proof that occupation will be peaceful?

Of course the people of Iraq wish we eventually withdraw from their nation and that's all the ridiculous polls will confirm, but they also are considerably appreciative of the help we continue to provide.

Boy, there is a lot of bull shit being posted today.

...eventually withdraw? No, they want it now.

The only appreciative Iraqi is the puppet government official who was put in place by the U.S.

Man is there some delusional people posting some convoluted drug induced crap lately.