Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, January 01, 2008

When some of the world's leading religious scholars gather in San Diego this weekend, pasta will be on the intellectual menu. They'll be talking about a satirical pseudo-deity called the Flying Spaghetti Monster, whose growing pop culture fame gets laughs but also raises serious questions about the essence of religion. The appearance of the Flying Spaghetti Monster on the agenda of the American Academy of Religion's annual meeting gives a kind of scholarly imprimatur to a phenomenon that first emerged in 2005, during the debate in Kansas over whether intelligent design should be taught in public school sciences classes.

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Supporters of intelligent design hold that the order and complexity of the universe is so great that science alone cannot explain it. The concept's critics see it as faith masquerading as science.

An Oregon State physics graduate named Bobby Henderson stepped into the debate by sending a letter to the Kansas School Board. With tongue in cheek, he purported to speak for 10 million followers of a being called the Flying Spaghetti Monster -- and demanded equal time for their views.

"We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it," Henderson wrote. As for scientific evidence to the contrary, "what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage."

The letter made the rounds on the Internet, prompting laughter from some and vilification from others. But it struck a chord and stuck around. In the great tradition of satire, its humor was in fact a clever and effective argument.

Between the lines, the point of the letter was this: There's no more scientific basis for intelligent design than there is for the idea an omniscient creature made of pasta created the universe. If intelligent design supporters could demand equal time in a science class, why not anyone else? The only reasonable solution is to put nothing into sciences classes but the best available science.

"I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; one third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence," Henderson sarcastically concluded.

Kansas eventually repealed guidelines questioning the theory of evolution.

Meanwhile, Flying Spaghetti Monsterism (FSM-ism to its "adherents") has thrived -- particularly on college campuses and in Europe. Henderson's Web site has become a kind of cyber-watercooler for opponents of intelligent design.


That's using yer noodle!

Be Well.

Henderson did not respond to a request for comment. His Web site tracks meetings of FSM clubs (members dress up as pirates) and sells trinkets and bumper stickers. "Pastafarians" -- as followers call themselves -- can also download computer screen-savers and wallpaper (one says: "WWFSMD?") and can sample photographs that show "visions" of the divinity himself. In one, the image of the carbohydrate creator is seen in a gnarl of dug-up tree roots.

It was the emergence of this community that attracted the attention of three young scholars at the University of Florida who study religion in popular culture. They got to talking, and eventually managed to get a panel on FSM-ism on the agenda at one of the field's most prestigious gatherings.

The title: "Evolutionary Controversy and a Side of Pasta: The Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Subversive Function of Religious Parody."

"For a lot of people they're just sort of fun responses to religion, or fun responses to organized religion. But I think it raises real questions about how people approach religion in their lives," said Samuel Snyder, one of the three Florida graduate students who will give talks at the meeting next Monday along with Alyssa Beall of Syracuse University.

The presenters' titles seem almost a parody themselves of academic jargon. Snyder will speak about "Holy Pasta and Authentic Sauce: The Flying Spaghetti Monster's Messy Implications for Theorizing Religion," while Gavin Van Horn's presentation is titled "Noodling around with Religion: Carnival Play, Monstrous Humor, and the Noodly Master."

Using a framework developed by literary critic Mikhail Bakhtin, Van Horn promises in his abstract to explore how, "in a carnivalesque fashion, the Flying Spaghetti Monster elevates the low (the bodily, the material, the inorganic) to bring down the high (the sacred, the religiously dogmatic, the culturally authoritative)."

The authors recognize the topic is a little light by the standards of the American Academy of Religion.

"You have to keep a sense of humor when you're studying religion, especially in graduate school," Van Horn said in a recent telephone interview. "Otherwise you'll sink into depression pretty quickly."

But they also insist it's more than a joke.

Indeed, the tale of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and its followers cuts to the heart of the one of the thorniest questions in religious studies: What defines a religion? Does it require a genuine theological belief? Or simply a set of rituals and a community joining together as a way of signaling their cultural alliances to others?

In short, is an anti-religion like Flying Spaghetti Monsterism actually a religion?"


Has the time finally come to be having this debate?

Spud thinks it's past(a) time.

Be Well.

Joining them on the panel will be David Chidester, a prominent and controversial academic at the University of Cape Town in South Africa who is interested in precisely such questions. He has urged scholars looking for insights into the place of religion in culture and psychology to explore a wider range of human activities. Examples include cheering for sports teams, joining Tupperware groups and the growing phenomenon of Internet-based religions. His 2005 book "Authentic Fakes: Religion and American Popular Culture," prompted wide debate about how far into popular culture religious studies scholars should venture.

Lucas Johnston, the third Florida student, argues the Flying Spaghetti Monsterism exhibits at least some of the traits of a traditional religion -- including, perhaps, that deep human need to feel like there's something bigger than oneself out there.

He recognized the point when his neighbor, a militant atheist who sports a pro-Darwin bumper sticker on her car, tried recently to start her car on a dying battery.

As she turned the key, she murmured under her breath: "Come on Spaghetti Monster!


Traditionally, athiests address all prayers "To Whom it may concern". Switching the FSM fer that gives an athiests prayers a more homey touch.

Here's a great quote on religion that Spud read last night.

"If Triangles had religion? Their God would have three sides"

~Old Yiddish Saying

So if traditionally religious folks think that believers in the FSM are a bunch of meatballs...

Be Well.

Don't tell anyone from Wisconsin that the Packers aren't the chosen ones.

Helluva funny title - Pastafarianism.
hehehehehe

Is this debate actually happening...?
I have to say, fictitious or no, that's pretty fricking funny.

In de name of de pazta, and of de zauz, and of de pinot grigot, RAmen.

Made my kick ass tuna casserole last night. Egg noodles aplenty.

Sent it right to the altar of the Flying Spaghetti Monster - my stomach (which has a mini case of 'Dunlap Disease' from all the holiday food. My belly dun laps over my belt a little

"Don't tell anyone from Wisconsin that the Packers aren't the chosen ones."

Yes they are.

In de name of de pazta, and of de zauz, and of de pinot grigot, RAmen.

I was a devotee of Ramen during college. He got into a lot of hot water around the dorm though. (yuk yuk)

"Don't tell anyone from Wisconsin that the Packers aren't the chosen ones."

Was there even a question about that?

The Packers are the chosen ones and Brett Favre was sent to earth to lead them.

Everybody knows that.

Now... onto the unknowable.

Have you ever noticed that the people most likely to want ot tell you about their religious beliefs are usually also the type of people least likely to want to listen to yours?

Wot's up with that?

Here's a cute one...

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said 'Stop! don't do it!' 'Why shouldn't I?' he said. I said, 'Well, there's so much to live for!' He said, 'Like what?' I said, 'Well...are you religious or atheist?' He said, 'Religious.' I said, 'Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?' He said, 'Christian.' I said, 'Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?' He said, 'Protestant.' I said, 'Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?' He said, 'Baptist!' I said, 'Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist church of god or Baptist church of the lord?' He said, 'Baptist church of god!' I said, 'Me too! Are you original Baptist church of god, or are you reformed Baptist church of god?' He said, 'Reformed Baptist church of god!' I said, 'Me too! Are you reformed Baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed Baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?' He said, 'Reformed Baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!' I said, 'Die, heretic scum,' and pushed him off.


~Emo Phillips

Be Well.

I miss Barry Golwater.

~Zat.

Okay, Zat sed that on another thread, but Spud's thread just hit the big time on the front page here and so Spud is put it on here.

Fer Zat...

On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of conservatism.


~Barry Goldwater

It almost goes w/o saying but... Strewth!

Be Well.

Mamma mia! This a thread is a making a me hungry!

"Mamma mia! This a thread is a making a me hungry!"

Posted by member2586

Best risotto this side of Rome.

www.austinvespaio.com

And they did not pay me, I pay them.

A lot.

Last place I saw Weinberg, come to think of it.

"~Barry Goldwater

It almost goes w/o saying but... Strewth!

Be Well."

Posted by dethspud



The last true conservative.


I talked with Barry via ham radio when he was in SF at the GOP convention.


Talked with a lot of folks.

Homo sapiens ain't dead, but the leisure society is.

The culling of the useless 98% is about to commence.

Just like the last time.

nothing complements your FSM like a tiny teapot-

Two kids who get it trump an infinite number of those who don't.

Besides, they knew Max.

My daughter, briefly.
"He's wild."

duh

A few years back while The Goddess and I had a house on the beach on Kauai for a few weeks;

"You left him out? He's pissed! He's very vocal!"

From my son after three days away.

i179.photobucket.com

You should ask my daughter about crickets.

'tiny teapot-"


Earth is indeed that.

Well, not even that, really.

More like a pathetically irrelevant grease trap.

I miss Barry Golwater.

~Zat.

Okay, Zat sed that on another thread,







The Dems went to shit in the 30's.
The Repubs went to shit in the 60's.


My widow WILL drive the Hizpano Suiza.

(Actually it's a 2004 C4S, but you get my drift.)

Of course we aren't dead yet and I have no intention of removing my air conditioner and stepping on to a New York street.

I'm having too much fun.

Barry flew everything the Air Force had.

"I miss Barry Goldwater."

"Okay, Zat sed that on another thread,"


Every good Christian should kick Huckabee and Romney off a cliff.

Falwell's dead.

And he never flew shit.

I miss goldwater, I miss nixon, I miss JFK, I miss ford, I miss boo fucking who!

The past is behind us, move into the future, get on the plane or get left at the gate.

Solo into Jackson Hole on my own wings.

Experiencing beauty is its own reward.

www.marrazzo.net

Zat is make a point...

The culling of the useless 98% is about to commence.

Spud was gonna get the planet a "flea, tick and human collar" fer Christmas but couldn't find one in the earth's size.

Size XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Large fer a class M planet by the way.

Not even on e-bay!

Never tried Craig's list.

Then, of course, Spud remembered that the big cull was coming anyway so Spud just sent the Earth a nice card.

Spud also sends the earth a nice card on Mother's Day.

It is only right to do so.

Barry G was a Ham operator?

News to Spud.

Spud remembers you saying that yer daughter had a pet cricket which Spud found extremely charming.

Wot does one name a pet cricket?

"Jumping Jiminy" is too obvious.

Barry flew everything the Air Force had.

Barry Goldwater was a pilot too?

Spud's gonna be 45 onna 26th of this month and is just a wee mite too youngish to remember him properly.

His candle burnt out long before... and all that.

I'm having too much fun.

Spud has already had enuff fun fer a coupla lifetimes.

Doesn't stop Spud from wanting to have more.

"Some people get by
with a little understanding
Some people get by
with a whole lot more

I don't know
why ya gotta be so undemanding
One thing I know...
I want more.
I want MORE!!

And I need all the love that I can't get to.
And I need all the love I can get.
And I need all the love that I can't get too.

so hot, so cold,
so far, so out of control"

Spud is...

"hard to come by, and harder to hold"

'tiny teapot-'

Earth is indeed that.

Well, not even that, really.

More like a pathetically irrelevant grease trap.


One that really, really needs cleaning.

Helluva toboggan ride though! ^_^

Be Well.

PS: True story. When Spud was growing up there was this guy down the block with a massive Ham set-up at his house. Biggest fuggin' Antennae Spud had ever seen. Didn't know wot Ham was way back then. Spud just assumed the guy got a shit-load more teevee channels than Spud.

Spud was jealous as well as deeply ignorant.

Funny ole world.

Solo into Jackson Hole on my own wings.

Experiencing beauty is its own reward.


Spud finds beauty all over the place.

Sometimes in the most unexpected places.

Spud thinks that even the ugliest truth is more beautiful than the prettiest lie.

That Spud!

Be Well.

PS: Remember "Deep Thoughts" by Jack Handey in the old National Lampoon or even SNL?

"When children ask what rain is I always find it fun to tell them that it's merely God crying.

When they ask why God is crying I find it fun to tell them...

Probably because of something you did." ^_^

"Spud has already had enuff fun fer a coupla lifetimes."

So sad.

I'm into billions.

Did you know cats say mu?


Back to B&W photography.

images.cafepress.com

I am so disappointed in all of you for your PATHETIC lack of comprehension.

Not really.

Every good Christian should kick Huckabee and Romney off a cliff.

Ha! That and the "Falwell never flew shit" line reminds Spud of a song.

Ever hear "Bedward the Flying Preacher"?

It's the sung tale of a preacher who announced one Sunday at church that the following Sunday he would jump off the roof of the church and fly over the heads of the congregation.

The next week an especially big congregation gathers to watch "Bedward the Flying Preacher"

Song ends...

"But Bedward didn't Fly. Bedward, he die"

"Bedward, the Flying Preacher"

Spud laffed anyway.

Hard tune to get a hold of.

Spud found on a compilation disc by the Forehead Bros aka Tackhead Sound System in one of their many incarnations.

Tackhead purely rawked!

Be Well.

Do the Pastasfarians wear dreadlocks?

Bottom line here is that Pastafarianism is no more or less "provable" than any other "religious" belief system.

If ya wanna teach ID in class then you hafta teach all the other religions creation myths at the same time. All or none. Spud votes "none". Spud's vote is to teach science in schools and religion in Sunday school.

Is belief in the FSM a "real" religion?

In the sense that any religions are real it is.

The only difference is that Pastafarians are in on the joke and Christian's are, as has been famously sed, the audience that is afraid to laugh at the comedian that is God.

Of course, compared to the Muslim world Christian's are a regular laff riot.

The Jewish world out of all three "people of the book" are pretty much by default the folks with the biggest ability to laff at God's jokes.

Course they've had a longer time to get those jokes.

Be Well.

/gotta sleep now
//stage left.

I don't know if Pasta created the Universe and neither do you.


I don't know if Pasta created the Universe and neither do you.

Posted by danni


I put some left over spag and sauce in the microwave for too long (time being relative to what's happening on TV)and I got a mini-big bang with expanding tomato seed shaped galaxies and everything.
Also got reamed out by the wife for making a "godawful" mess.
Women just don't understand science...

cut
paste
troll

I luff the FSM! such a wonderfully delightful way to approach the topic of Religion. Reminds me of the heady days of Monty Pythons Flying Circus.

Spud- I agree with most of your potato mashies except that I believe ID and all other versions of creationism should be taught in school. But not under the guise of science. More appropriately as Social Studies or part of History or Current Events.

In that light (as I have mentioned) I have made all my family (much to their chagrin) view the special
Judgment Day -Intelligent Design on Trial

so that they are aware of the controversy. I support the theory of "teach the controversy" though not for the same reason as the church who believe that the "Wedge Strategy" will bring down science. I believe that teaching the controversy will bring out the truth.

Also, as I have pointed out, this is a painful documentary for Christians to watch as it brings out a lot of TRUTH.

The truth will set you free...right after it scares the shit out of you.

I can see it now.................!

"Pasta Camp", where kids are brainwashed into devoting their lives to Chef Boy-R-Dee....

Enterprise, one to beam up.........

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