Oh shit.
There goes Pakistan.

HOLY SHIT! This is not good. I think we are in for a bumpy ride in 2008.

Did anyone have any question on how this was to end for her when she came in out of nowhere last year? C'mon, now , be honest...

This whole thing smacked of "martyrdom" right from the very beginning...

God damn it! It sucks that this happens one week before Iowa. It is going to affect our primaries. I am sure fucking Giuliani or McCain or other hardliners will benefit from this because they can now claim we have to be tough and we can't end the war.

NOT Good.

The Surge is working?

The entire area is now more prone to violence than it was before Bush declared Jihad on the Oil Fields...
Oops, that should be "Pre-emptive war on the Terrorists".

Anybody feeling safer?

Anybody?

Spud kicks back and waits fer the retarded righty tighty set to try and saythat BushCo murdering Muslim by the thousands and sending millions over the borders as refugess did not precipitate this.

How do those folk think the Taliban came into power in the first place in Afghanistan?

They were mostly refugees from Afghanistan who fled into Pakistan when the Soviets invaded and then returned after the Soviets had been driven out.

Spud imagines the hand of Mushy was behind this assassination, although with "plausible" deniability, of course.

Good eye, Yav.

Be Well.

/Spud's going bgack to bed fer a bit.
//just wanted to make sure this had been covered.

If Condi sez "Crisis also means Opportunity" one more time Spud is gonna freakin' SCREAM!!

"State of Emergency"

Get used to them words, folks.

Be Well.

Come November 8, 2008 Americans will go to the polls with hopes for a brighter future after Bush, only to find out the next day they elected another complete moron and a complement of 435 dwarfs.

Oohrah

Don't be frightened. We'll send a big guy to hold your hand until you go to sleep. How many need to die for you pants pissers? We lost more today than that in auto accidents. Get some nuts.

It does present a quandry for voters - and for Dem candidates who'd advocate a pull back from Iraq (and, I assume, maintain a MUCH lower military profile most everywhere).


You ARE talking about the Democratic party in AMERICA, right???

In the media mill this Bhutto thing will give plenty of grist for the neocons to fashion their leavened loaves of lugubriosity and pass them out to the hungry mouths of the voting populus.

All you need are the 3 G's to survive in this world-- Guns, Gold, and Guts. If a government starts telling you it will hold on to your gold for safekeeping, provide your guns, and do anything to protect your guts from harm, you're going to go down the shitter eventually.

Radical Islam strikes again despite the silly claims from our far left moonbasts that its all some sort of conspiracy.

"A party security adviser said that Bhutto was shot in the neck and chest as she got into her vehicle shortly before a gunman blew himself up.

"At 6:16 p.m. she expired," said Wasif Ali Khan, a member of Bhutto's party who was at Rawalpindi General Hospital."

It's a violent world. One in which we must be vigilent. I'm not saying Dems CAN'T be vigilent, but their rhetoric doesn't inspire me that they would be. I hope I'm wrong.

Posted by OohRah

The problem is we interfere TOO MUCH in the rest of the world. Also, if Bush had not wanted to play cow boy in Iraq and stayed in Afghanistan to clean it up, then Pakistan would not be so unstable now.

The people who are behind this, wheter Al Qaeda or Musharif himself, can only benefit from having another hardliner in the in the White House. Al Qaeda can keep recruiting idiots to die for Allah, and the General can keep playing us for the big suckkers we are, claiming we need to keep him around or else hells descends.

We need a change of foreign policy. We need to quite fucking around in that area of the world, or else it will get worse.

"In the media mill this Bhutto thing will give plenty of grist for the neocons to fashion their leavened loaves of lugubriosity and pass them out to the hungry mouths of the voting populus. "

Oh and you're still trying to deny that radical Islam is the enemy that the entire civilized world is fighting?
Is that what you're saying ?

I don't see this developement as being good for the right wing wackos....Mushareff is and has been their ally....Bhutto represented democratic change in Pakistan...now it appears that the anti-democratic pro-dictatorship Musharef supporters have succeeded in assasinating Bhutto...so now how does Bush or other hard line righties approach this situation...ask Mushareff to take off his uniform again??? Ask him where are the nukes????
Looks to me that one of our "allies" in the war on terror is plunging into chaos. Our presence in Iraq will have little, if any, effect on the events in Pakistan.

More bad news for the land of Milk and Honey. How much longer before Musharaf leaves the scene in a body bag?

I don't see this developement as being good for the right wing wackos....Mushareff is and has been their ally....

~Danni

BushCo haven't had a Pakistan policy so much as they've had a Mushareff policy, to date.

Even w/o his uniform on, Mushy is there to prevent the angry Muslim Mob from getting any ideas vis a vis reprisals fer the treatment of their fellow Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Be Well.

PS: Fuggit. Spud aint getting back to sleep now.

"from our far left moonbasts"

Go fuck yourself

Oh and you're still trying to deny that radical Islam is the enemy that the entire civilized world is fighting

Go back into your pathetic hole you anti-American Zionist apologist. I've read your recent posts and its clear you would sell the soul of America for Zion, and its apparent you only care about this Bhutto thing in terms of how it will benefit your Zionist worldview. You are more dangerous than these people because you are in my country and you are trying to fashion American foreign policy to fit the needs of your conceited worldview.

"How much longer before Musharaf(sic) leaves the scene in a body bag?"

Posted by Ray


Before Osama.

Bhutto was ahead of Musharraf in polling 53% to 44%.

IIRC, two of Bhutto's brothers had previously been assassinated - I believe in France.

She had completed the rally and was in her vehicle when the attack occurred. Unconfirmed reports say she was shot while she was within her bullet proof vehicle.

LOL, already you can hear the creaky neoconservative gears spin into action. The megaphone has been switched on. This is probably the best thing to happen to them since the Iranian president spoke at Columbia. it certainly woke GZ out of his self imposed slumber.

Again, did ANYONE doubt the outcome of this whole Bhutto thing?

Reminds me of canned hunting back in west texas with my uncle back in the 80s.

Again, did ANYONE doubt the outcome of this whole Bhutto thing?


I had hoped otherwise.

Chatting wif da Cagey One!:

Again, did ANYONE doubt the outcome of this whole Bhutto thing?

Spud just checked with Vegas.

Apparently, they refused to even put a line out on the odds of Bhutto getting whacked.

Wot does THAT tell ya?

Reminds me of canned hunting back in west texas with my uncle back in the 80s.

Reminds Spud of going hunting with Cheney.

Only in this case Mushy was Cheney and Bhutto was the Quail-tard.

Be Well.

I had hoped otherwise.

I went outside this morning to look at my sheep. I have three pregnant ewes and one male left. This one male I pay attention to is 8 months old. I know when I look at him I am going to kill him and eat him for New Year's. He looks at me and seems to understand his lot. Still, it is obvious to both of us, even though he probably hopes I'm going to change my mind.

THAT is this whole Bhutto thing in a nutshell.

Wonder if Musharref had a hand in this,or Al Queda in Pakistan?

K.G. - I understood. I expected. Yet I hoped.
Part of my nature I suppose.
Still, I am saddened.

Radical Islam strikes again despite the silly claims from our far left moonbats that its all some sort of conspiracy.

GZ, nobody is claiming radical islam is a conspiracy.

The conspiracy theories all revolve around our government's reponse to that radical islam.

9/11 was done by Saudis. Where is the reprisal against Saudi Arabia?
Pakistan harbors the worst of the radicals, including Osama, and including those who just killed Butto. Where is the action against our "good friend" Pakistan??

Answer this GZ, is Bush going to do a single thing about Pakistan? Did overthrowing a secular dictator who kept radical islam in check do a damn thing to control radical islam around the world?

Jesus man, wake up.

Just to clarify, I'm not advancing any theories. I don't know why Bush refuses to act against the Saudis, Osama and Pakistan. I'm just saying it's strange, and if the Right wants to charge the Left with ignoring radical islam, they would do well to look closer to home first.

K.G. - I understood. I expected. Yet I hoped.
Part of my nature I suppose

I remember when Lennon got plugged my college roomate was going in between sips of beer, "Aw man, this is gonna spoil my Christmas break", LOL.

life goes on, and so does the spin...

The only suprise in this is that she lived this long over there. She's had a bullseye on her from both the wahabbists(the wascals would never allow a westernized woman to wule) and Mushy's folks.

Bush act against Pakistan, or Saudi Arabia?

He acts FOR them. They are "on our side"

Right.

I understood. I expected. Yet I hoped.
Part of my nature I suppose.
Still, I am saddened.

~Yav

Well sed.

Spud sez about the same thing.

"Plan fer the worst, hope fer the best.
That way all yer surprises should be pleasant ones."

This was an unpleasant unsuprise.

the wahabbists(the wascals would never allow a westernized woman to wule)

FF fer Morris.

(Spud's on his third cuppa and much more inclined to see the humour in things)

Be Well.

......no one suffers from the Religion of Love like the Muslims themselves......

DAMN......it took until the 5th post before you libs blamed this on bush....you must be slipping.....normally thats in the first 1 or 2.....

my first reaction is......where does musharef play in this.....and what about the nukes......

Ugh. What terrible news. I think you can only hope that Bhutto's love of country, which sent her home to certain and constant threat of assassination, will have a lasting impact on its fortunes.

HOLY SHIT! This is not good. I think we are in for a bumpy ride in 2008.

Posted by member2586


Nah... the religion of peace will take this all in stride I'm sure...

I'm starting up a business that only sells kevlar turtlenecks...

I don't know why Bush refuses to act against the Saudis, Osama and Pakistan.

It's too big. The greatest military empire in the world feeds on small defenseless nations.

NOT Good.

The Surge is working?

Posted by Dethspud

Holy fuck are you retards serious with this shit?

Fuck 'em.

Let them have their little religious war. There is a reason that their backwards asses are still living in 14th century conditions ... their heads are still there too.

Her supporters at the hospital began chanting "Dog, Musharraf, dog," referring to Pakistan's President, Pervez Musharraf.

We might see a civil war soon.

of course they are rob........watch and read...before this thread gets too big, we will read all sorts of shit about how its our fault..
just last night on charlie rose, I sucked it up and held my nose and listened to interview with paul krugman and then randall robinson....I think his last name was...and both of them did little more than blame this country on every ill of the world...........

so it will continue here and the only REAL thing they will accomplish other than spit up all over each other is to give me further fodder.....( say that ten times real fast).........for the campaign for a REAL conservative for the white house.

THIS WAS NOT OUR FAULT........

We might see a civil war soon.

Here or there?

We might see a civil war soon.

Here or there?

Posted by k_g_beekeeper


See 10:12 AM post

for the campaign for a REAL conservative for the white house.

Curious, who would be the best candidate for that, BLT?

The people in the streets are chanting against Musharraf, They know what's up. The General benefits more from this than Al Qaeda an other militants. The General is secular, like Bhutto. Now he is the only game in town.

Besides, I don't think Al Qaeda does assassinations with AK 47s, it's just bombs for them.

Fuck 'em.

Let them have their little religious war. There is a reason that their backwards asses are still living in 14th century conditions ... their heads are still there too.


Posted by chlorinehair5 at


while I agree with you........you cant "ron paul" them..........if there is upheaveal...
main question is......

who gets the nukes..........

Curious, who would be the best candidate for that, BLT?

Posted by k_g_beekeeper


this is an easy one....only conservative in the race is fred thompson.......


SO MEMBER..........musharif is secular and havent I read here countless times from socialist that sadaam was secular which made him good for iraq....or better than it was then......so doesnt it mean that socialists here should WANT musharif to keep his power?

who gets the nukes..........

Posted by bushlovertwo


Judging by that story a few weeks (months?) back that America was helping Pakistan to secure their nukes, I'm betting that we know where they all are and in the event of some sort of break down in Pakistan's gov't they will all be destroyed or removed from their control.

THIS WAS NOT OUR FAULT........

I believe that it was the US who made a deal with Musharraf to bring Bhutto back into the country to give an appearance of democracy. Now they may have a civil war on their hands. Blowback big time.

We might see a civil war soon.

Spud doesn't quite get that.

Spud means... they call 'em "Civil Wars" but they rarely are.

Spud feels much the same way about the term "Worlds Fair"

Just don't make sense.

Be Well.

while I agree with you........you cant "ron paul" them..........if there is upheaveal...
main question is......

who gets the nukes..........

So instead of going in to another country by force to DESTROY their WMD, you are now all for going into one to PRESERVE them?

Spud doesn't quite get that.

Spud means... they call 'em "Civil Wars" but they rarely are.


Real original line there Axel Rose...

Muslims slaughtering other Muslims.

Just another day, like any in the past fifty thousand days.

Great way to end the year. Let's hope this isn't a preview of 2008. Happy fucking New Year.

The Nuke issue is a when is it going to happen not if.

You are never going to stop people who are certain that the path to paradise is paved with dead bodies.

Let them turn that whole region from the Isreal to Pakistan into one giant glass parking lot.

No one in that region wants peace, including US. I hate religion

this is an easy one....only conservative in the race is fred thompson.......

I would agree Thompson has the potential to be a purer conservative than we have seen in many a moon, and he is a much better choice than Rudy, Huck, or Mitt, but as long as he is roped to the CFR and the AEI, which have distinctly non-conservative components, I couldn't vote for him.

Spud kicks back and waits fer the retarded righty tighty set to try and say that BushCo murdering Muslim by the thousands and sending millions over the borders as refugess did not precipitate this.

Spud at 8:47

Didn't hafta wait too long...

THIS WAS NOT OUR FAULT........

BLT at 10:17

An hour and a half.

Betcha if this had taken place a little later it woulda been more like half and hour, but as it was, we had to wait fer BLT to get his mommy to dress him and have his morning cocoa and then figure out there was a thread on tre topic and THEN make an absolute ASS out of himself.

Admittedly, Rob the IgnorANUS made noises in that direction too, five minutes earlier...

NOT Good.

The Surge is working?

Posted by Dethspud

Holy fuck are you retards serious with this shit?

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2007-12-27 10:12 AM

As predictable as they are pathetic.

As crazy as they are clueless.

Gotsta luff the right!

Be Well.

my first reaction is......where does musharef play in this.....and what about the nukes......

My first reaction was that she was assasinated by al-qaeda/taliban forces and sympathizers within the government...and Musharef didn't play a role in the conspiracy....but maybe even worse, he was completely powerless to stop it or even know about it.

Nah... the religion of peace will take this all in stride I'm sure

Sad day for Pakistan. Good day for Rudy and Hillary's campaign. This may help doom Obama though. His willingness to just talk to any factions in the world without any groundrules seems incredibly naive under such circumstances.

UN will have a security council meeting at noon.

Well, now I feel safe, yeah, the UN coming to the rescue!

We might see a civil war soon.

We can only hope. What needs to happen is a complete meltdown of the middle east and a total shut down of oil production. This is the only way to stop the neo-con insanity. If the idea of preemptive war and arrest succeeds in even a small way the world is doomed perpetual oppression.

Muslims slaughtering other Muslims.

The religion of peace. LOL

I'm just waiting for some Lefty here to say Christianity is just as bad and then talk about the "Crusades" or the "inquisition" from hundreds of years ago and give the same tired old example about an abortion clinic bombing as "proof" that Christianity is as equally a murderous religion today as modern day Islam.

"Sad day for Pakistan. Good day for Rudy and Hillary's campaign."

Bad day for America then because they hardline politics is not what we need to solve this. Their policies would add gasoline to an already burning fire.

I would agree Thompson has the potential to be a purer conservative than we have seen in many a moon, and he is a much better choice than Rudy, Huck, or Mitt, but as long as he is roped to the CFR and the AEI, which have distinctly non-conservative components, I couldn't vote for him.

Nixon's Moleman aint his own man.

He's a BushCo bitch and his connection to the fuckwads at the AEI and CFR are precisely why he's not to be trusted to do more than take naps, throw a fuck into his latest trophy wife whenever the Viagra kicks in and then to sign wotever paperwork his corporate taskmasters lay before him.

Face it, all the GOPher candidates are idiots and assholes this time around.

Ron Paul is the only one with even half a brain in his head and in his attempts to bring down the size of government he will playing right into the hands of the globalists/ privitisation crowd.

On the left ya got Obama.

Period.

ClintCo may be an improvement over the current batch of fucksticks but a Freakin' Chia Pet would be that.

Obama '08.

Be Well.

Bowa, go peddle some thongs until you come up with a post that actually makes sense.

This whole thing smacked of "martyrdom" right from the very beginning...

Posted by k_g_beekeeper at 2007-12-27 08:42 AM | Reply

No kidding. That bus attack when she returned from exile now seems like foreshadowing in her biopic.

We can only hope. What needs to happen is a complete meltdown of the middle east and a total shut down of oil production.

Figures a Lefty would "hope" for the slaughter of millions of people.

""His willingness to just talk to any factions in the world without any groundrules seems incredibly naive under such circumstances.""

Excuse me but Obama was the first one to say that he would go into Pakistan to get Al Quaeda if he had actionable intelligence. Just who is it that you don't think we should be talking to????
I would have thought that the revelation that Iran does not have an ongoing nuclear weapons program would have finally convinced you that the idiotic policy of BushCo to not talk was crazy...but I guess not.
Not that I am necessarily in favor of Obama but still to be fair....

Agreed, that this is a good day for Clinton's and Rudy's campaign. Too bad people are too stupid to realize that these two tough talkers aren't the answer. Not that tough talk is completely bad, but the important thing we need to do is to listen. All of our foreign policy seems to ignore the attitudes of the people and governments they are aimed at. Results can only come from our foreign policy if we attempt to understand their culture and how our presence and actions effect it. Without this understanding and without using enough caution we are just making an unstable situation even less stable.

Bad day for America then because they hardline politics is not what we need to solve this.

From the Lefty point of view the only way to "solve" this would be for America to abandon Israel, withdraw from the Middle East entirely and do nothing while murderous Islamo-fascist forces just kill everyone in sight forcing those left into submission. As if that kind of capitulation and appeasement ever solved anything.

FYI: President Bush will be making a statement at 11AM

"Figures a Lefty would "hope" for the slaughter of millions of people."

Gawd, but you're pathetic.

Bowa, go peddle some thongs until you come up with a post that actually makes sense.

POSTED BY THE_ILK


Not Likely, see above:


You Guys need to view Bowa / Loony Lokisfur for what he is:

ENTERTAINMENT

This whole thing smacked of "martyrdom" right from the very beginning...

Posted by k_g_beekeeper at 2007-12-27 08:42 AM | Reply

I kinda doubt that Benazir Bhutto was hoping to be murdered. Even if she loved the American Democrat party and hoped that we would create universal health care and raise taxes on 'the rich'

FYI: President Bush will be making a statement at 11AM

POSTED BY BOWA

Resigning?

Gawd, but you're pathetic.

Ah, Spud sees that The Ilk has met Bowa.

Yeah, he's quite sommat sez Spud.

A real "piece o' work" as they say.

Be Well.

Musharef didn't play a role in the conspiracy....but maybe even worse, he was completely powerless to stop it or even know about it.

It wouldn't matter. Perception is everything. Al Queda could have done it to set him up as a scapegoat. With election close and Bhutto ahead in the polls, the timing couldn't have been worse.

Most likely, this blows US foreign policy on Pakistan out of the water.

From the Lefty point of view the only way to "solve" this would be for America to abandon Israel, withdraw from the Middle East entirely and do nothing while murderous Islamo-fascist forces just kill everyone in sight forcing those left into submission. As if that kind of capitulation and appeasement ever solved anything.

Yeah, us lefties are itchin' to abandon Israel.

We're spending $15 billion a year to fight those Islamo-fascist forces. Do you really think we're safer than we were in 2001?

Maybe it's time to redirect that money towards energy independence, so we don't have to care so much about the Middle East and can stop giving them so much of our money, some of which finds its way to militant madrassas and terror camps.

Most likely, this blows US foreign policy on Pakistan out of the water.

I agree. I don't know how Musharif stays in power. And a military coup does seem like a real possibility now.

This paragraph appeared under the subheading: "Iran Assessed As Determined to Develop Nuclear Weapons." www.weeklystandard.com
-Bowa



Bill Kristall rag not just another PNAC nutbag but a co-founder!

Anyone think that Musharraf ordered her to be killed? Or was this just some Sharia law moonbat who couldn't stand to see a woman in power?

Results can only come from our foreign policy if we attempt to understand their culture and how our presence and actions effect it

Our? This was a muslim pakistani woman, running for office in Pakistan... America has dick to do with it, and they still killed her...

All listening to Muslims is going to do is get a lot of innocent Americans and westerners killed.

"Maybe it's time to redirect that money towards energy independence, so we don't have to care so much about the Middle East and can stop giving them so much of our money, some of which finds its way to militant madrassas and terror camps."

Posted by rcade


That time was the 60's.
Certainly by the '73 embargo someone would have noticed.

Or was this just some Sharia law moonbat who couldn't stand to see a woman in power?

Posted by JOE


Since the public immediately thought it was Musharraf that makes me doubt it was him, since it is so obvious. I doubt he's that stupid or arrogant...

Simply put, there are millions and millions of insane and violent muslims who should top the suspect list before Musharraf.

Good point Rob. At the same time, you can't discount Musharraf. Given the tension between the two, there never would have been an inconspicuous time for him to pull this off before whatever political damage he expected her to do to him had been done.

This heading appeared in a Presidential Daily Briefing "Bin Laden determined to strike in US" -White House.

Maybe it's time to redirect that money towards energy independence, so we don't have to care so much about the Middle East and can stop giving them so much of our money, some of which finds its way to militant madrassas and terror camps.

Posted by rcade


Agreed, but I would also say that we redirect funds to pulling up every bit of oil outside of the ME, including the United States as well... What ever happened to drilling ANWR?

How about this... we drill in Alaska, in the Gulf, in Yellowstone, every-fucking-where... and all money made from that oil has to be put into funding research for alternative energy as well as building new Nuke plants, wind farms and such...

"Except from the point of view of Democrats and many in the Left leaning Media, the only revelation that came out of the NIE report was how come they contradicted themselves so completely in only 5 months. And why is the NIE considered credible now, but it wasn't considered credible by the Left in July or in 2005?"

You can't ask Danni questions like that. She already stated this morning that she has a hangover and has admitted to daily use of marijuana. How do you expect her to remember YESTERDAY, much less several years ago?

"I doubt he's that stupid or arrogant..."

It's a good point. But that was also the conventional wisdom when Marcos' thugs engineered the death of Aquino.

BOWA so do you honestly believe that Bush/Cheney weren't aware of what the latest NIE had to say until just recently???? I don't. They knew all along, were suppressing the info to try to justify another stupid war.
I don't think the earlier NIE was ignored by the "left" it just was considered justification for war before all diplomatic options had been explored. It didn't seem intelligent to just refuse to talk to Iran just because that NIE expressed suspicions that Iran was developing weapons which were still considered to be several years from yielding any usable weapons. It just wasn't an emergency situation justifying a war...so now you try to twist that into the left disputing its conclusions and then turning about face and believing the more recent one. Pure partisanship.

Yeah, us lefties are itchin' to abandon Israel.

You have to admit the tone of the left, especially in the Blogosphere, has been turning against Israel over the past couple years...

"This was a muslim pakistani woman, running for office in Pakistan... America has dick to do with it" -Rob

Yes, we were not responsible for this (definitely not directly, at least), but I was referring to our elections. I was responding to the comment that this will help Clinton and Guilliani. I think responsding to this by voting for either one is stupid for the reasons I stated.

The Today Show went on in their oblivion covering fluff for more than two hours after I heard of the assasination on the radio; where are the journalists?

From the Lefty point of view the only way to "solve" this would be for America to abandon Israel, withdraw from the Middle East entirely and do nothing while murderous Islamo-fascist forces just kill everyone in sight forcing those left into submission. As if that kind of capitulation and appeasement ever solved anything

Gotta luff the black and whitey, Righty Tighty "ill logic" that spews forth from Bowa's direction on a regular basis.

Well, not really, but Spud has a very odd sense of humour, so Spud is quite enjoy his rants.

First off, numbnutZ...

The Lefty point of view that you are throwing out there doesn't really exist but ...since ya asked so nicely? ...Here it goes.

There has been a thorn in the paw of the Muslim world fer over thrity years. The biggest source of their anger and craziness stems from the Israeli's mis-treatment of the Palestinian people.

Time to remove that thorn at last.

No more one sided support because of AIPAC's corruption of DC and the money lure of the MIC in both the US and Israel.

Time to act.

The only folks with the power to MAKE PEACE in Palestine and Israel are the Israelis and the Americans.

Period.

Despite all the rhetoric to the contrary, this very simple reality seems to elude most of the jargon spewing ass-wipes on the right, who refuse to think for themselves.

This doesn't mean abandoning Israel.

This means the US applying economic and political pressure on Israel to abandon the wall project, abandon the settlements and abandon the lies and daily violence direted at the Palestinians that have kept them in a permanent state of rage fer so fucking long.

Use military force, if neccessary.

Peace is like war.

It doesn't just happen as a rule, it has to be waged.

WAGE PEACE FOR A FUCKING CHANGE!

Empower the moderates.

Disempower the extremists.

It's that simple.

That's not to say it's gonna be easy but basically wot we're talking here is to do the exact opposite of wot's been done over the last thirty years...

...COS IT DON'T WORK.

Does ya Capiche, ya propagandising, Maroon?

Prolly not, and even if ya did you would never admit it. Spud and Bowa only really pretend to talk to each other, we are really talking over each others headZ to the rest of the blog-world.

Did anyone else in blog-world hear that and understand it?

Spud is genuinely curious now.

Be Well.

PS: As an after-thought, it might finally be time to remove the Pro-Israel media filters that have prevented an honest debate on this topic fer over fourty years.

""Maybe it's time to redirect that money towards energy independence""

Gee, too bad no one thought of that before we blew 500 billion in Iraq. I fondly remember the calls for conservation from Bush during the lead up to the Iraq invasion...what??? He never did call for it??? He was against more stringent CAFTA standards???? He didn't do anything to support alternative energy sources???? He just wants to subsidize oil companies????
Naw!! That just can't be true.

Maybe it's time to redirect that money towards energy independence, so we don't have to care so much about the Middle East and can stop giving them so much of our money, some of which finds its way to militant madrassas and terror camps.

As someone who is well aware that the US sits on the world's largest oil reserves...trapped in shale, I realize that we are not doing near enough to get energy independence and help make the Middle east strategically irrelevant.

But it is not an all or nothing proposition. As this assasination proves, the enemies of freedom and liberty are our enemies and it is in America's interest to promote and protect democracy, liberty, freedom and the free-market wherever we can.

I was responding to the comment that this will help Clinton and Guilliani. I think responsding to this by voting for either one is stupid for the reasons I stated.

Posted by Incredibleplum


There are arguably no democracies (maybe Iraq... kinda) in the Middle East, there are few if any moderate leaders in the Middle East, the whole area is run by dictators or religious psychopaths, and now the only woman to ever rule a muslim nation has been killed...

There is no reasoning with these people... they understand force and that's it. Some wishy-washy pussy like Barak Hussein Obama is only gonna make matters worse...

Figures a Lefty would "hope" for the slaughter of millions of people.

Neo-cons have already killed millions of innocent people. If not stopped they will kill millions more. The only thing that can stop them is by making their supporters poor. Since they value property over people they will choose money over ideology every time.

"Maybe it's time to redirect that money towards energy independence, so we don't have to care so much about the Middle East and can stop giving them so much of our money, some of which finds its way to militant madrassas and terror camps."

You mean like drilling offshore and/or in ANWAR? How about building nuclear power plants and a few NEW oil refineries while doing research for alternate sources of energy? Hell, if we started TODAY it would be years before we saw any results. What IS the major road block to becoming independent? I think you know.

WAGE PEACE FOR A FUCKING CHANGE!

And end up like Bhutto...

Hillary got the prime spot on TV just now, she went on at 10:55 and the President was scheduled to go on around 11:00 AM. But he's late. Now McCain is making a statement live. Where's Obama? Where's Rudy? Huckabee? This is prime time to look "presidential"

You mean like drilling offshore and/or in ANWAR? How about building nuclear power plants and a few NEW oil refineries while doing research for alternate sources of energy?

NO, NO, NO, NO,NO, NO,NO, NO,NO, NO,NO, NO!!!

The Caribou might have to adjust their grazing patterns if we do that! Better to stay slaves to Mullah Mukthar Abnedihadjadad...

Gotta correct you Rcade. That's $15 billion a month.

Thanks for the correction. Even more depressing though, and it isn't even our money being spent. The "war for civilization," as some people like to call it, is being funded by grand and great-grandkids of present Americans. Man are they going to love that.

Anyone think that Musharraf ordered her to be killed? Or was this just some Sharia law moonbat who couldn't stand to see a woman in power?

Posted by JOE

I suspect it was Musharraf because he has the most to gain.

As far as women in power, the other day I heard a comment on CSPAN's Washington Journal call-in program that we should not elect Hillary as president because the Middle Easterners and other would not like that.

Fuck that! I am not a Hillary fan, but I'll be damned if am going to let foreigners dictate to us who our president should or shouldn't be. I am sorry but they don't get a fucking vote. If they don't like it, they can fuck themselves or go tip a goat or camel or whatever they do for fun.

"You have to admit the tone of the left, especially in the Blogosphere, has been turning against Israel over the past couple years..."

Rob, wasn't it just last week we were discussing new Israeli settlements in the WEst Bank???
ARe we on the left deserting Israel or is Israel being run by Zionists who are moving away from any position we can support???
I don't believe all Israelis agree with many of the things they are doing.

"The Today Show went on in their oblivion covering fluff for more than two hours after I heard of the assasination on the radio; where are the journalists?"

Give 'em time to spin it fer chrissakes, or tune into K_G_Bee Radio:

Breaking news: Bhutto killed at Pakistan rally. Usual Suspects Rounded Up by news outlets.

Generalisimo Francisco Franco is STILL DEAD.

Interbots spin tragedy to suit their purposes. Drudge Report prints big headlines in RED.

Tickets for Bhutto's funeral are one sale at Ticketmaster. They are 20 bucks in advance and 25 bucks in retreat.

K_G_Beekeeper milks cow and gets hand stepped on. In much pain and can't type too well. Attempts to slaughter sheep lefthanded. Entrails at 11.

Ah the STRAWBERRIES-- that''s where I had them!!!!

"How about this... we drill in Alaska, in the Gulf, in Yellowstone, every-fucking-where... and all money made from that oil has to be put into funding research for alternative energy as well as building new Nuke plants, wind farms and such..."

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2007-12-27 11:00 AM

YEAH!

Why do your hate the oil companies so much?

As if, after investing all that money (instead of the smart and cheapest thing to do --- be more wise, frugal and "conservative" in consumption) they would be willing to just turn over the money!

Anyway, back to the thread ------ one thing is for sure and proven once again!

Another Right Wing Religious Extremist (TM) has blown themselves up and taken more innocent people with them over some stupid regressive and twisted religious ideology.

The "war for civilization," as some people like to call it, is being funded by grand and great-grandkids of present Americans. Man are they going to love that.

Posted by rcade at 2007-12-27 11:09 AM |


Indeed. They'd much more love a civilization that practices female circumcision and inter family honor killings.

You're right, we should keep our heads in the sand for the good of the chilruns.

hey bowa, now they are getting state of the art missile technology from Russia.
They have a right to all nuclear technology.
We do not have a right to their resources, as many would suggest.
They do have the right to use "their" resources as a weapon.

It seems a no-brainer that the russians and china have something in store for whomever goes to Natantz.

"Some wishy-washy pussy like Barak Hussein Obama is only gonna make matters worse..." -Rob

The problems in the ME are because we never listen to them. That's not to say they will go away overnight it we start listening to them, but it needs to happen. Since britain divided the area up for it's own purposes we have never really listened to their problems. The result is a culture of hatred towards the west. Unless we address this problem and stop feeding this sort of culture we will always have problems with these people. This sort of cultural change takes time. It might be a whole generation, but if we stop giving them a reason to hate us, their kids will grow up and won't see a reason to continue to hate us to the point of terrorism and martyrdom. That's the only way to stop this. It's not an easy solution, but it's the only way. Feeding the problem with tough action without any careful thought will only fuel the anger towards Americans.

"The biggest source of their anger and craziness stems from the Israeli's mis-treatment of the Palestinian people."

Is that why they are wreaking genocide in the Sudan? Why are they committing terrorism in the Philippines, what has the PI done to the Palestinians? Then, of course, there was that dirty deed done to children in Beslan...was that because they were pissed at those children for the "Palestinian Plight?"
They've been crazy and angry for CENTURIES. They just have more and better technology now. Their goal is the SAME as it has been.

"How about building nuclear power plants and a few NEW oil refineries while doing research for alternate sources of energy?"

LOL. And ruin the vista from a mansion inhabited by a west coast lefty? Not a chance.

ARe we on the left deserting Israel or is Israel being run by Zionists who are moving away from any position we can support???

All I ever hear about Israel from the left is that we should cut their funding, or break ties with them completely... Maybe you can claim you don't like their policies, but they're elected leaders are acting in ways they feel best secures and strengthens their nation and yes, you on the far left want to abandon them for that...

"How about building nuclear power plants and a few NEW oil refineries while doing research for alternate sources of energy?"


The energy bill recently signed into law is a joke. Only the auto industry is asked to bear the brunt of our contry being energy efficient. Big oil gets away with murder and there are no mandates for renewable energy. If we as a scoiety were serious about energy, we would have demanded a better bill. But since Detroit makes crapy cars, no one cares about a crapy energy bill that does not call for "shared sacrifice", no, just let them, those other guys do the heavy lifting, not me.

The problems in the ME are because we never listen to them.

Oh no, we listened to them alright... 19 muslims killed 3000 americans, and our reply has been to take over 2 of their nations and kill probably millions of them (directly or indirectly)...

Its just a new kind of dialog... I just thinnk we need to "speek" a little louder...

Did anyone have any question on how this was to end for her when she came in out of nowhere last year? C'mon, now , be honest

100% KGB. we'll see another member of her powerful family swoop in on the wings of her martyrdom and take control.

I want to abandon Israel because it has nukes and it has a powerful military. It can take care of itself. It's a waste of money to continue to give supplies to Israel, especially when we continue to give supplies to those who dislike Israel as well.

speak... whatever

This is all of George Bushes fault. Just kidding!
However, I truly feel that we need to compromise with these people. Not give them what theywant but at the least, find out what it is that they want and then work from there. No time has problems of this magnitude been settled by gun, not even our own Civil War. What is happening now is one die one, two die two, many die many, and it does'nt make since. We can't kill them all and they can't kill us all. The cypher contniues without soultion.

"Did anyone else in blog-world hear that and understand it?"

Most don't understand a word you say, "prolly" cause you're a big-boned stamen who lacks the most essential bone of all (ya know, the one we call a spine).

I want to abandon Israel because it has nukes and it has a powerful military. It can take care of itself.

They are completely surrounded by enemies hell bent on their anihalation... I think they could use a powerful friend to have their back and keep the area from exploding.

If we did stop backing them, the area could completely fall into a war zone because countries like Syria, and Jordan and some others might think then is the time to strike, leading Israel to respond with the full force of their military...

Of all the times to talk about scaling down our support of Israel, this is not it...

"Its just a new kind of dialog... I just thinnk we need to "speek" a little louder..."

And just who is going to pay for it?????

""All I ever hear about Israel from the left is that we should cut their funding, or break ties with them completely... Maybe you can claim you don't like their policies, but they're elected leaders are acting in ways they feel best secures and strengthens their nation and yes, you on the far left want to abandon them for that...""

Their elected leaders are not elected by Americans and thus why do Americans have the responsibility of funding their policies????

Bush says the terrorists who killed her must be brought to justice.

Nice, from the Leader who has done such a good job getting Bin Laden.

"If we as a society were serious about energy, we would have demanded a better bill."

Instead, years ago, we took the solar panels off the White House, imagined pollution was irrelevant and the oil would flow forever.

Party on!

The road goes on forever.
And the party never ends.

Not give them what theywant but at the least, find out what it is that they want and then work from there.

Kill ever Jew, and we all convert to Islam, or lay our heads on the chopping block...

Your counter-offer?

"19 muslims killed 3000 americans" -Rob

Why would they do this? There must be a motive. The question is, are our current actions fueling that motive? If so, be ready for another 9/11.

And just who is going to pay for it?????

The mortgages on those old dusty nukes of ours were paid off years ago...

Their elected leaders are not elected by Americans and thus why do Americans have the responsibility of funding their policies????

Posted by danni

We're allies... friends... friends help each other, especially the stronger ones help the weaker ones.

Thanks for the correction. Even more depressing though, and it isn't even our money being spent. The "war for civilization," as some people like to call it, is being funded by grand and great-grandkids of present Americans. Man are they going to love that.

Rcade, ultimately the main divide between most Democrats and Republicans, over the war comes down to a simple distinction -- I am generalizing, but essentially the Left believes that there is no such thing as a worldwide Jihad against the west often described as "Islmo-fascism". And the small groups of Islamic extremists that do exist are justified in their attacks against America because of our support of Israel and presence in ME. The Left believes we should change our entire ME policy and only deal with terrorist acts as "police actions" not as "acts of war".

On the other hand, in general, the Right believes that there is nothing wrong with US policy to support our allies, defend our strategic interests, and promote and defend democracy and the free market in the ME. And that it is in our best interest to do so. The Right sees the Islamic Jihad against the US and Israel and the West as a global in scope and an attack on western civilization itself that rivals "nazism" in its potential for destruction. The Right believes that Islmo-fascism cannot be appeased and to do so will just lead to 10's of millions maybe hundreds of millions of deaths.
So while you bemoan the cost of war. I just think how much greater the cost would have been had we only responded to 9/11 as a police action and not as an act of war.

Why would they do this? There must be a motive.

They fucking nutjob muslims?

Why can't "Crazy" just be the answer? They're fucking nutjob muslims, who need to be killed by the hundreds of thousands in order to calm down...

Think about it, they've been attacking the United States and the west for decades... they're entire region with the exception of a few cities is remeniscent of the 12th century, they stone women who get raped...

They're savages...

They are completely surrounded by enemies hell bent on their anihalation... -Rob

As with my last comment, there must be a motive for their hatred of Israel. Israel must learn this when dealing with the situation. If they don't learn to compromise then maybe they will get what they deserve. Our presence in Israel only stands in the way of this progress and allows Israel to continue to treat the other ME countries like crap with little consequence.

As with my last comment, there must be a motive for their hatred of Israel.

Crazy fucking muslims.

Israel must learn this when dealing with the situation.

Israel as we know it today wasn't created in 2004... its been around for decades and shockingly... crazy fucking muslims have been trying to destroy them from the start.

this murder proves one thing for sure... america must invade iran now!

-gz-lives

Kill ever Jew, and we all convert to Islam, or lay our heads on the chopping block...

Your counter-offer?

-Rob

Oh even 'worser' deny them the strangle hold they have on us Oil

"They fucking nutjob muslims?" -Rob

They are human beings just like you and I are. Fundamentally they aren't really all that different. The difference is based completely on culture. As stated earlier, learn the culture and try to stop the reasons for having a violent culture. You can't fix a violent culture by treating them with more violence and hatred. It doesn't work that way. You fix it by stopping the reasons for being violent. If their is no reason to be violent the culture will change to something less violent as it becomes less beneficial to the culture.

"I just think how much greater the cost would have been had we only responded to 9/11 as a police action and not as an act of war."

Sorry, bub, but that doesn't square with Bush's porous Southern borders. It's more likely that dealing with it as a police action would have saved tens of thousands of our bravest from getting killed or seriously injured, as well as trillions of dollars.

Israel as we know it today wasn't created in 2004... its been around for decades and shockingly... crazy fucking muslims have been trying to destroy them from the start.

The Israelis knew that before they started. Only they couldn't have imagined it would go this far. It was a monstrous mistake.

I suspect it was Musharraf because he has the most to gain.

There's no gain for him in an assasination of Bhutto. It immediately delegitimizes his government and plunges it into chaos. Why would he risk that happeneing?

If anything, the military and police leadership (which is full of al-qaeda/taliban sympathizers) has the most to gain as they use force to get control back.

I wouldn't be surprised if Musharraf is forced into exile

Oh even 'worser' deny them the strangle hold they have on us Oil



Posted by Zap

Oh cool, you have a hydrogen fuel cell car and the ability to set up the infrastructure for such a vehicle hidden in your basement?

Why didn't you say so!?!?!

Its fun to just make up technologies isn't it...

Hey, here's a better solution to the problem... we need to divert all our funds to building a time machine so we can go back to the year 10,000 BC, and drain all the oil from the ME and put it under wisconsin... then when we get back from our time travel superfun adventure we'll have all the oil!!!

Problem solved...

this murder proves one thing for sure... america must invade iran now!

-gz-lives

Posted by 503jc69

Yeah! Don't you know Iran was involved in 9/11 !!!

You can't fix a violent culture by treating them with more violence and hatred.

Really? Germany and Japan are pretty cool places to visit today... how were they around 1943?

There is a reason that the middle east, once at the pinacle of civilization and now sitting literally on top of the most valuable natural resource in human existance, is a third world shithole.

Ok there are a few. In no particular order.

1) The western world 1st Europe and now the US getting involved in a 8 1200 year civil war and not allowing it to take its course.

2) His name starts with A and ends with H, that's right kids Allah and his little henchman the Prophet.

It's a pretty fair comparision to use 15th century Christianity to 21st century Islam. And that's the problem with this little apples to oranges comparison, 600 years ago people thought the world was flat, and that our leaders were direct appointees from god, and the this god figure created the world in a week, and religious fiction was actual fact ... shit my argument is falling apart.

Sorry, bub, but that doesn't square with Bush's porous Southern borders.

Sorry bub. The main reason we haven't been attacked again is because islamic extremists are terrified of Bush and his ability to wage war against them. The best "offense" they have against us is the anti-War Left who have abandoned the President and recite al-qaeda talking points trashing America. Why would these terrorist groups attack America again andr risk unifying this nation behind a President so willing to attack them where they live? Another 9/11 will not happen on Bush's watch.

we need to divert all our funds to building a time machine so we can go back to the year 10,000 BC

Then again, if you listened to some on the right, we'd be going back to a time that didn't exist... since the world is only 5,000 years old.

So, let's go back to the year 4,999 BC... then get the oil

Sad day for Pakistan. Good day for Rudy and Hillary's campaign. This may help doom Obama though. His willingness to just talk to any factions in the world without any groundrules seems incredibly naive under such circumstances.

How is this good for Hillary or Rudy? They only want to continue the Bush doctrine, which overthrew a secular dictator and handed Iraq to the nutjobs.

You want MORE freedom and democracy in Pakistan? Why, so they can elect an islamic terrorist to power?

Sorry, but I'd rather have a President who only listens to them bitch once in a while, rather than a President who hands the islamists an entire country on a silver platter.

Has Obama made a statement about this yet?

I understand Al Qaida is trying to take responsibility for her death. Ah......another brilliant demonstration from the religion of peace.

"The main reason we haven't been attacked again is because..."

What a bozo. There is no way you could possibly know why we haven't been attacked. You may think you know why, you may venture an opinion as to why, but you cannot "know."

Come on, kiddo, tighten up your reasoning skills.

Why didn't you say so!?!?!

Its fun to just make up technologies isn't it...

Problem solved...

POSTED BY ROB_THE_A_HOLE

First steps Baby, like rebuilding a franchise.

FIrst you need desire!

Opps missing component from almost everyone involved. Starting with Ronnie Raygun taking the solar panels off the white house.

Now there is a message for progress and diversion.

Do really want to be dealing with this in 50 years?

First Steps..

""Sorry bub. The main reason we haven't been attacked again is because islamic extremists are terrified of Bush and his ability to wage war against them."

hahahahahahaahahaha!!!!!
Yeah, tell Osama Bin Laden that. The US is great at waging war against nation states but not so good at waging war against organizations like Al Quaeda who can move from country to country.
Tell me, are they afraid of the US as they sit safely in their caves in Pakistan???
As they slowly destabilize Pakistan which has nuclear weapons???

Rob

The culture of Germany was violent because of a crappy economy. The people were desparate so when Hitler came along and saved the economy the people went along with it. They were not necessarily a violent culture. Japan's violence was a result of population pressure and an increased need of resources. The cultures of these two situations were not directly violent, but the results of a desparate population led to violence. Besides, we weren't at war with a culture in WW2. We were in war with nations and armies, not an ideology.

Starting with Ronnie Raygun taking the solar panels off the white house.


Yeah, if only they were still there... we'd all be in our flying cars, blogging from our moon base...

THIS WAS NOT OUR FAULT........

Posted by bushlovertwo at 2007-12-27 10:17 AM

You have no idea who's fault it was. Are you saying we are completely blameless? That we were not involved in ANY way?

The problem with the right is that they cannot look at America critically and say we may have made some mistakes and we need to correct them. They say things like "America! Love it or leave it!

or

Go Team America! World Police!

The world is a very complex place and by becoming a Warring Nation in this world we have added to the chaos not reduced it.

Therefore we are part of the PROBLEM not the solution.

Does that make any sense at all to you?

I doubt it.

"Come on, kiddo, tighten up your reasoning skills."

Ilk, you must be new here. Might as well wish the sun to rise in the West.

Has Obama made a statement about this yet?

Fox News said he's comming up.

Rudy just spoke, and said this proves we have to remain on offense. Fine, we have to remain vigilant, we knew that.

Then he went into how we need more troops in Afghanistan, more troops everywhere, more war.
#1, how does something that simplistic do anything about nutjobs in Pakistan?
#2, is he going to call for a draft to get these shiny new troops?

Faux News had decided that this was the action of Terriorist. This will once again lead the way for the Republicians to instill fear once again to the American voters.

This situation is because of a flawed American policy of choosing sides in a very volital culture which these idiots from Texas that rule the White House know nothing about.

The idea that if he's our Dictator than it's O.K. this has been the American policy for the past 75 years. It has come back to bite us in the ASS everytime and these idiots from the state of Texas has once again shown there incompetance.

Bush, reacts as usual a day late and a dollar short...Pray for America, a Great Country with poor leaders that will lead us down, to areas we may not want to go!!!!!

There is no way you could possibly know why we haven't been attacked.

Human nature. Al-qaeda knocks down a couple of buildings and kills 3000 civilians. And then they lose Afghanistan, Iraq and are fractured and forced into the caves while 80% of Iraq goes to the polls and votes for a Constitution and democracy. Now a couple of years later even fellow Muslims in Iraq have turned against them. And while the war is far from over, the cost to al-qaeda and the worldwide Jihad against the West has been devastating.

And the assasination of Pro-Western Bhutto will further unify the US and the West against all those forces who support Islamic extremism.

Sorry bub. The main reason we haven't been attacked again is because islamic extremists are terrified of Bush and his ability to wage war against them."
-Bowa


See what I mean Comedy!

Before the day is done he'll be stating one of the reasons they can't be engaged is they have no fear of death and will only be rewarded with virgins in martyrdom.

Yes Sir that's our Bowa..........

The Israelis knew that before they started. Only they couldn't have imagined it would go this far. It was a monstrous mistake.

Posted by Ray


BULLSHIT, the movement to create a Jewish state started long before the end of WWII. The British encouraged Jewish settlers to move to the "holyland", otherwise known as the only land in the middle east with no oil. At the time the current residents were pretty pissed. So the British decided to give the Arabs the land East of the Jordan, or East Jordan( currently called Jordan) they did this by only allowing jewish settlers on the West side of the Jordan River.

Some one can correct me if I am way off base here, but I believe this is pretty accurate.

So to say they had no idea what would happen is ignorant of history.

Not saying that I agree with those fundamentalist shitheads in Hamas and Hizbollah

Plum...

You had two nations start a war(s) that turned out to be the largest and most catastrophic ever...

Was it ended by listening to them?

""Sorry bub. The main reason we haven't been attacked again is because islamic extremists are terrified of Bush and his ability to wage war against them."

Bin Liden got what he wanted and what he predicted would come of this..impending US financial ruin, increased anti-American sentiment globally, blood of young soldiers sent to fight a losing battle on his territory. Why even bother to wage another 9/11? Has nothing to do with fear of Bush. What a joke.

The problem with the right is that they cannot look at America critically

The problem with the Left is they never do anything but...

"the cost to al-qaeda and the worldwide Jihad against the West has been devastating"

What are you smoking? Attacks are up, not down.

Oh, that's right...I'd forgotten the Bowa rule: when the fact don't jibe with the talking point, misinterpret them.

Yeah, if only they were still there... we'd all be in our flying cars, blogging from our moon base...

POSTED BY ROB_THE_A_HOLE


Really???

I doubt that, but we would be a few years down the road toward it.

I guess it requires imagination and sincerity..

Maybe it's time to redirect that money towards energy independence, so we don't have to care so much about the Middle East and can stop giving them so much of our money, some of which finds its way to militant madrassas and terror camps.

Posted by rcade

This breaks the world's dependency on oil

www.interstatetraveler.us

What are you smoking? Attacks are up, not down.

In western nations? Or in muslim ones?

I doubt that, but we would be a few years down the road toward it.

I guess it requires imagination and sincerity..



Posted by Zap


How do you feel about drilling in ANWR?

"In western nations? Or in muslim ones?"

On Earth.

Bin Liden got what he wanted and what he predicted would come of this..impending US financial ruin, increased anti-American sentiment globally, blood of young soldiers sent to fight a losing battle on his territory. Why even bother to wage another 9/11? Has nothing to do with fear of Bush. What a joke.

LOL

figures someone called "proud canadian" would make such an inane comment. How "proud' can you be if you are trolling American blogsites. Don't you have your own country?

Obama didn't really have much to say. He basically said "We stand with the people of Pakistan in their quest for democracy".

He didn't make any campaign promises to bail out Pakistan, and that's fine. Pakistan isn't our problem, I don't want a bunch of American soldiers dying for those whackos.
There's careful deplomacy to plan. It's refreshing that Obama didn't just spout out a bunch of nonsense.

And the assasination of Pro-Western Bhutto will further unify the US and the West against all those forces who support Islamic extremism.
POSTED BY BOWA

And enhanced sales of Rudy for President Thongs, AND Whiter teeth!

And If you act now...............

-Billy Bowa Mays

And now Bush and Musharaf are linking this to the Mystical and ever elusive "Terrorists" who are destroying the world. We need to immediately pass a few more wiretapping laws and eliminate a few more rights of the people.You know it seems to me that leaders have been assasinated before and it was never a Terrorist but just a criminal then. But I guess that was sooo pre 9/11.

Papa Bush will protect us if we sign over just a bit more power to him.

Are you afraid yet? Papa Bush will protect you.


The candle flame gutters. Its little pool of light trembles. Darkness gathers. The demons begin to stir. [Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science As a Candle in the Dark]

It's refreshing that Obama didn't just spout out a bunch of nonsense.

Posted by Norm_

LOL... yeah, refreshing...

Some one can correct me if I am way off base here, but I believe this is pretty accurate

Chlorine

You're mechanically citing events that miss my point.

800,000 Palestinians were terrorized out of their homes to make way for a new nation. Zionist factions knew there would be fierce resistance. That's why they enlisted the aid of UN, US and Britain before they started. At the first Arab war, Israel had the military in place to defeat them.

Again I state that Christian and Jewish Zionists knew there would be fierce resistance to the idea of a Jewish nation before they carved up the boundaries.

"Was it ended by listening to them?" -Rob

As stated, World War II was not a problem of culture, but a problem of economics. The Germans as a people weren't "nutjobs", and neither were the Japanese. The Middle Easterners as a population, however, is a problem. It's not their governments that are causing things like 9/11, it's a cultural movement. People are willingly joining these groups, not being coerced into it through force and/or desparation. You can only put out these cultural movements by giving the population options that are more attractive to them and more beneficial to us than joining a terrorist group.

increased anti-American sentiment globally

That's why our alliance with France, germany and the UK has never been stronger.

I guess it is easier for people to have anti-American "sentiment" becuase there is no fear of reprisal. Of course, expressing any anti-Muslim sentiment could get you killed.

The Germans as a people weren't "nutjobs", and neither were the Japanese.

The silliest thing I've ever heard...

"Human nature."

Let me see if I've got this straight, ok, Bowa?

You know that "the main reason we haven't been attacked again is because islamic extremists are terrified of Bush and his ability to wage war against them," and this "knowledge" has been revealed unto you because of your understanding of "human nature"?

That's amazing.

For thousands of years an endless procession of (at various times) sociologists, casters of runes, philosophers, seers, theologians, soothsayers, biologists and clairvoyants have wrestled with that one.

And here you are able to cut right through all of the discussions about evolutionary psychology and developmental psychology, structuralism amd postmodernism, psychiatry and psychology, behaviorisim, free will and dterminsim, Plato, Aristotle, Nietzche, and all the rest of that crap and, in one blinding moment, divine the true meaning of the term "human nature."

Who could have imagined it would happen, today, here on the DR?

My gawd, man, a grateful hamanity bows before the blinding heat of your illuminated thinking.

You can only put out these cultural movements by giving the population options that are more attractive to them and more beneficial to us than joining a terrorist group.


Posted by Incredibleplum


How about this for an option...

cut the shit or everyone dies?

How do you feel about drilling in ANWR?

POSTED BY ROB_THE_A_HOLE


Imagintion and sincerity Rob drilling in ANWR is niether. Just more of the same old technology.

Let me ask you this how much oil is there? a couple of years worth?

I would say pump the shit out of it completely and make a mess if needed.

IF it was coupled with a complete change in research & development away from oil by all concerned.

The Middle Easterners as a population, however, is a problem. It's not their governments that are causing things like 9/11, it's a cultural movement. People are willingly joining these groups, not being coerced into it through force and/or desparation. You can only put out these cultural movements by giving the population options that are more attractive to them and more beneficial to us than joining a terrorist group.

Unlike the other world's great religions, Islam has not gone through it's enlightenment and reformation so it is still largely a medieval religion. Which wouldn't really matter if they weren't sitting on the world's most important oil reserves which forces western nations to have to deal with and appease their viciousness, brutality, prejudice and insanity.

So the ornamental Shrub in the White House convinces Bhuto to come back to Pakistan...the US will protect her and they can have democratic elections. So much for what happens when people 'trust' Shrub & Co. Musharif and his cohorts hold an 'emergency' meeting today to congratu...er...condemn the assasination. Bring democracy to the Middle East? Maybe in some alternate reality, sure as hell not in this one!

Imagintion and sincerity Rob drilling in ANWR is niether.



In regards to freeing us from middle eastern oil, it most certainly is.

Let me ask you this how much oil is there? a couple of years worth?

So what? use the revenue from it to build nuclear power plants, wind farms and whatnot, along with funding research for alternative energy cars...

Why is the caribou more important then humans to Liberals?

the US will protect her

Huh? We probmised to protect her? With what? Troops?

Show me where we said we would protect her.

800,000 Palestinians were terrorized out of their homes to make way for a new nation.

That's one twisted way to look at it. Of course, the truth is that the surrounding arab states urged the exodus with the promise that after they destroyed israel the palesitnians would be able to return and take all the jewish land. Of course, Israel won the war...and the Egypt and jordan got whatever land israel didn't in the ceasefire and the palestinians were shit out of luck.

The palestinians should blame their fellow arabs for their plight more then the israelis.

"The silliest thing I've ever heard..." -Rob

Is that the best you can do? The Germans and Japanese were desparate. Desparation causes behavior that is easier for strong governments to take control of. The results were two countries who had an easy time taking complete control over the population. The way to fix this was to remove the government and help the people fix their economic situation. This is not the same situation as we have seen in the ME.

"Yeah, if only they were still there... we'd all be in our flying cars, blogging from our moon base...""

Had we just kept the policies of Carter in place we would not now need to import any oil from the ME. Oh, and yes Ronnie Raygun did cancel them and yes he is partially responsible for the mess we are in today about energy.

"Yeah, if only they were still there... we'd all be in our flying cars, blogging from our moon base...""

Had we just kept the policies of Carter in place we would not now need to import any oil from the ME. Oh, and yes Ronnie Raygun did cancel them and yes he is partially responsible for the mess we are in today about energy.

We will finally have a nuclear war at last!

And then Zephrim Cochrane will build his warp engine, and on April 5, 2063 the Phoenix shall fly ushering in a new era for the human race!

It has been fortold int he Book of Star Trek.

we haven't been attacked again is because islamic extremists are terrified of Bush and his ability to wage war against them

It is more likely that WE haven't been attacked because the plan that OSAMA set into motion many years ago is still working.

Bush is playing right into the hands and draining our treasury pissing off and alienating everyone in his path. Like a Bull in a China shop he creates enemies by the thousands. He is completely destabilizing the WORLD.

Why should OBL risk anything over here. Things are going as planned. Remember that they think in years and decades we see things in terms of months and days.

Having said that I am personally surprised things haven't been worse for us but I believe it has more to do with luck than any skill on our part because I see NO SKILL on our part.

Have you been to an airport lately? Embarrassingly amateurish if you ask me.

The Germans and Japanese were desparate.

And in their desperation they waged wars to take over the world, killed 6 million innocent civilians because they were jewish, crashed planes into ships and other targets, fought to damn near the last man on pacific islands instead of surrender...

nah... they weren't nutjobs at all...

My gawd, man, a grateful hamanity bows before the blinding heat of your illuminated thinking.

Thanks Ilk. I applaud your ability to recognize my greatness.

Why is the caribou more important then humans to Liberals?

POSTED BY ROB_THE_A_HOLE



I guess reading to whole post was to much to ask...

"Islam has not gone through it's enlightenment and reformation" -Bowa

A reasonable arguement, but if this is the case I believe we are holding the culture back from achieving it.

Had we just kept the policies of Carter in place we would not now need to import any oil from the ME.

Sorry Plum, I was wrong...

This is the silliest thing I have ever heard...

Had we just kept the policies of Carter in place

LOL

That's pretty funny.

Carter was an unmitigated disaster.

Ray

I was referring to the following.

Only they couldn't have imagined it would go this far

They new exactly what they were getting into. They counted on the UN & US to protect them once they got there.

LOL... yeah, refreshing...

Well Rob, what campaign promisses would you have prefered he spew out?

Should he have said we won't rest until the terrorists are brought to justice?
We want them dead or alive?
We've heard that bullshit before.

Should he have said he'd start a new war, a draft?
What meaningless campaign promises did you want to hear from Obama?


McCain is talking now: "Support Pakistan democracy, support elections, support the government keeping control."
At least he's not asking for more troops. Rudy makes McCain look good.

Reminds me of canned hunting back in west texas with my uncle back in the 80s.

Posted by k_g_beekeeper at 2007-12-27 09:19 AM


Cheney is your Uncle?

Thanks Ilk. I applaud your ability to recognize my greatness.

POSTED BY BOWA


Oh Bowa we ALL do.

And Thanks!

Should he have said we won't rest until the terrorists are brought to justice?
We want them dead or alive?
We've heard that bullshit before.

LOL... yeah so instead like you said, he "didn't really have much to say."

Very presidential...

"Islam has not gone through it's enlightenment and reformation" -Bowa

A reasonable arguement, but if this is the case I believe we are holding the culture back from achieving it.

Posted by Incredibleplum


Our fault... unbelievable...

Cheney is your Uncle?

Posted by briwo

Okay, that's funny.

They counted on the UN & US to protect them once they got there.


Posted by chlorinehair5


Um... you might want to read up a tad on the weapons the Israelis first used to kick the shit out of the Arabs...

Hint: They came with crepes...

Bowa
800,000 Palestinians were terrorized out of their homes to make way for a new nation.

That's one twisted way to look at it.

The palestinians should blame their fellow arabs for their plight more then the israelis.

Let me get this straight. Because the Arabs lost, it's a spoils-of-war kind of thing. Fine. I've been trying to explain the source of Palestinian and Muslim hostility towards Israel. You made my point.

I really fail to see how this is such a sad day for Pakistan. Bhutto stole ~$1B from her country in the form of bribes - not just trumped up charges but actually backed by true records of Euro companies doing business there. She is also accused of giving the go ahead for assasination of her younger brother (as acused by her own neice) and agreed to by the courts within Pakistan. The US does not have a monopoly on corrupt politicians and Bhutto is definitely corrupt. I really don't care for Mushy - but at least he does not seem to be robbing the country blind.

"Our fault... unbelievable..."

Well, not completely. Britain had a huge hand in it before us. Invading a culture with violence almost always holds a culture of peace back. I believe I've said my piece. I'm off to lunch.

A reasonable arguement, but if this is the case I believe we are holding the culture back from achieving it.

Not exactly sure what you mean. I think Islam's reformation will happen, because it is impossible to stop the flow of information in this day and age. For example, the millions of cell phones, computers and internet access that is now in the hands of Iraqis that they didn't have under Saddam will do far more to "westernize" Iraq then any troops can do.

Same goes with Iran -- for example, recently the Iranian government shut down numerous internet cafes -- but it is a losing battle. Even as oppressive as "sharia" is, it cannot stop the unrelenting flow of information from the West getting in. So the "West" will eventually prevail, and it is inevitable that Islam will be brought into the 21st century-- what is in doubt, is how many people will die in the process.

Carter had the oil prices and inflation sky high, and he wasn't even trying to line his pockets or help his buddies in Haliburton or any of the other corporate boogiemen blamed by the left for every problem EVER.

Invading a culture with violence almost always holds a culture of peace back.

Why not just blame the crusades?

Anything to excuse the muslims from their own responsibilities...

"Thanks Ilk. I applaud your ability to recognize my greatness.
Posted by Bowa at 2007-12-27 12:13 PM"

Oh, I'm a big believer in the old superstition that "a child shall lead them."

Hush a moment! What's that I hear?

The sound of one hand clapping.

Let me get this straight. Because the Arabs lost, it's a spoils-of-war kind of thing. Fine. I've been trying to explain the source of Palestinian and Muslim hostility towards Israel. You made my point.

it's not so much a spoils of war thing as a "Egypt and Jordan screwed the Palestinians out of their land" thing" after losing the war to Israel.

"Grow a pair and answer the question..."

Grow a pair and deal with the answer.

"Carter had the oil prices and inflation sky high"

Carter INHERITED the inflation from the Nixon/Ford administration...remember Ford's WIN buttons...no you don't, do you?

Carter had to contend with the oil embargo which caused the rise in gas prices.

The FACT if we had followed Carter's policies we would be in a much better position today whether neocon know-nothings want to admit it or not.

Unlike the other world's great religions, Islam has not gone through it's enlightenment and reformation so it is still largely a medieval religion. Which wouldn't really matter if they weren't sitting on the world's most important oil reserves which forces western nations to have to deal with and appease their viciousness, brutality, prejudice and insanity.

Posted by Bowa at 2007-12-27 12:07 PM

We have known this for decades....so that brings us back to the question RCADE asked...

Why didn't we solve the energy crisis? Why have we let it deteriorate into a NATIONAL SECURITY CRISIS?

""It said the decision to assassinate Bhutto was made by al Qaeda's No. 2 leader, Ayman al Zawahri in October.""

Gee, sure glad Bush diverted our troops and resources to Iraq instead of staying in Afghanistan and really getting the job done.
Made the neocons happy though.

Chlorine
They new exactly what they were getting into. They counted on the UN & US to protect them once they got there.

Posted by chlorinehair5

One last try to explain. They thought they knew what they were getting into. As 60 years of hindsight has proved, they were shortsighted. Israel is less secure than any time in its history. 60 years of superior military force has only attracted more formidable and more numerous enemies. The strategy turned out to be a monstrous failure. If you think this is all going to evaporate away, you're as short sighted as the Israelis were 60 years ago. People suffer because they refuse to learn by their mistakes.

"Why have we let it deteriorate into a NATIONAL SECURITY CRISIS?"

America elected two oilmen. Why should anyone be surprised after 7 years we're more dependent on oil?

Just stopping in from Arizona to say hi all.

Merry Christmas GZ! (Don't take that wrong)

Oh and, remember this:

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

As democracy's main obtacle remains irrelevant.........

Peace and Happy New Year. Going for a horse back ride. See you in January....

it's not so much a spoils of war thing as a "Egypt and Jordan screwed the Palestinians out of their land" thing" after losing the war to Israel.

Posted by Bowa at 2007-12-27 12:26 PM

Well clearly, the Palestinians and Muslims are holding Israel responsible. Perception is everything.

Perhaps you care to share an alternative theory why Israel is hated so much by its neighbors. Every time I raise this issue, I get ignored or deflected. I know you won't disappoint me Bowa.

Um... you might want to read up a tad on the weapons the Israelis first used to kick the shit out of the Arabs...

Hint: They came with crepes...

I did not know that, always assumed we did.

I guess the french had a lot of unused weapons in the late 40's

LOL... yeah so instead like you said, he "didn't really have much to say."
Very presidential...

So you're admitting you'd prefer to be lied to, knowing it's a lie, the whole "We're going to get those terrorists" tough act...
How is that Presidential?

Why didn't we solve the energy crisis? Why have we let it deteriorate into a NATIONAL SECURITY CRISIS?

I believe it's because of economic reality and lack of political will on both sides of the aisle more then anything. We as a nation got complacent. And, with China and India's industrial explosion, it has now become a huge national security crisis.

As long as oil was relatively cheap, then there was little desire on the part of oil companies and car manufacturers to develop new technologies. As long as oil was cheap, politicians didn't feel that it was worth taking the political hits required to try to get money to develop expensive new technologies when their constituents were yelling for money for other things. As long as oil was cheap, it was easier to appease environmentalists and prevent building new nuclear plants, refineries, mining shale, and drilling for oil in places like Anwar.

Now that oil is not cheap -- the finger pointing is fast and furious -- but really it seems that we as a nation are all to blame -- except of course for ed Begley, Jr. :-)

Egypt and Jordan screwed the Palestinians out of their land" thing" after losing the war to Israel.

That kind of logic is like saying if a man goes to the aid of a woman being raped, it's his fault for failing to stop the rapist. Bowa, you have some kind of a Genghis Khan mentality.

"As long as oil was cheap, it was easier to appease environmentalists and prevent building new nuclear plants, refineries, mining shale, and drilling for oil in places like Anwar."

Riiiight! Cuz there was no other alternative....like conservation, alternative energy sources, more efficient vehicles...etc.

Our own auto makers pushed SUVs instead of fuel efficient cars....
Oil companies made the largest profits of any corporation in history....

We didn't follow Carter's energy plans because some people were making too much money selling oil and SUVs, etc.
Hell, look at the average size of the American home, its grown quite a bit since the '80s which takes more energy to heat and cool....

Don't even blame the "tree huggers" who were the only folks "leading." We better start listening to those "tree huggers" before the oil war mongers get us to invade some other nation for oil.

"figures someone called "proud canadian" would make such an inane comment. How "proud' can you be if you are trolling American blogsites. Don't you have your own country?"

You are such a sad representation of your country. All you exude is arrogance and a lack of insight or intelligence. Get your head out of your ass and stop wondering why there is anti-American sentiment in the world right now. It's because of people like you, and I thank goodness that at least some of these posters at least consider all sides of a debate and make intelligent comments - whether I agree or not.
I read American blogs because our boys are fighting in Afghanistan too. Remember? Bush thanked Canada for doing all of the heavy lifting less than a week ago. I do not think this is the first time you've bashed Canadians - maybe you should sit back and think for a bit about who your allies are and how they should be treated. Especially with the way your dollar is going. Maybe if you think for a bit it'll give some other people here to time to take a breather from your self-righteous, assinine posts. P.S. I thought the internet had borders.

p.s. Bowa. Pride in your country does not equate to ignoring what goes on outside of it so you can spew your opinion based on little ot no fact. Maybe you should try reading international news sources and blogs - or are you afraid that would make you less American?

That kind of logic is like saying if a man goes to the aid of a woman being raped, it's his fault for failing to stop the rapist. Bowa, you have some kind of a Genghis Khan mentality.

What a ridiculous comparison to make. The arabs didn't go to the palestinians aid...they wanted to just detroy Israel after they rejected the partion and israel had accepted it. it's funny how Lefties like you expect the US to abide the UN, yet you don't hold the Arab states who attacked Israel similarly responsible. Also, you make it sound like jews just moved into the area that is now Israel after the partiion was made - most of them were already there and had been for decades.

face it ray, its the arab states who were the aggressors and have been from day 1. Israel has only done what it needs to do to survive. And if you want to talk about the "birthright' for the land. Consider this. Judaism is over 4000 years old, and Islam is less then 1400 years old....so whose land is it?

Now that oil is not cheap -- the finger pointing is fast and furious -- but really it seems that we as a nation are all to blame

It's not so much that oil has gotten more expensive in real terms. It's because the dollar is losing purchasing power in international markets. All imports and commodities are getting more expensive.

I believe it's because of economic reality and lack of political will on both sides of the aisle more then anything. We as a nation got complacent. And, with China and India's industrial explosion, it has now become a huge national security crisis.

Posted by Bowa

I like how it's "We as a nation got complacent."
Yeah, that's it. Which end of the political spectrum has always pushed for fuel efficiency and which end has consistently believed that it's their god given right to drive the biggest gas hog possible.

"Carter INHERITED the inflation from the Nixon/Ford administration..."

Danni...I have no idea how you come up with these statements unless it's a result of your drug-induced dreams. This little statement is from the Library of the University of Texas:


"President Ford's major accomplishments include:

1. Cutting inflation by more than half.

The inflation rate was going up at 12.2 percent a year when President Ford took office.
The inflation rate was down to 4.6 percent for the first half of 1976."

And THIS statement is taken from the Encyclopedia Americana:

"...but after four years of the Carter presidency, both inflation and unemployment were considerably worse than at the time of his inauguration. The annual inflation rate rose from 4.8% in 1976 to 6.8% in 1977, 9% in 1978, 11% in 1979, and hovered around 12% at the time of the 1980 election campaign."

C'mon, Danni...it's time to put the bong away and take a little nappy-poo.

As stated, World War II was not a problem of culture, but a problem of economics.

-I disagree. If you look at why WWI was fought and why the end of that war was humiliating, then you'll understand more about WWII. It was cultural, too - significantly so.

The Germans as a people weren't "nutjobs", and neither were the Japanese.

- Both believed in killing the innocent with the military. They waged war against anyone: with or without a weapon. And, then, tortured them horribly.

The Middle Easterners as a population, however, is a problem.

-No, as a population they are not. If we look at the problems within the ME, it isn't the whole ME, but segments within where culture or religion is the source of their problem in dealing with those that are different, and vice versa.

It's not their governments that are causing things like 9/11, it's a cultural movement.

- again, I disagree. I believe these nuts wouldn't be able to succeed without the gov'ts help. It costs too much money and infrastructure is paid for by their gov't's

You can only put out these cultural movements by giving the population options that are more attractive to them and more beneficial to us than joining a terrorist group.

- you have more virgins to offer than they do? Life every after is better in your future world than their's? Someone else said it, they haven't had their reformation yet.

The results were two countries who had an easy time taking complete control over the population.

- Germany understood the benefits and pitfalls of failing or winning wars. They just went through WWI.
There was a lot to gain if they could win WWII.

The way to fix this was to remove the government and help the people fix their economic situation.

-Remove Hindenberg and his appointed Chancellor?
Remove God from Japan?

They were removed by War.

This is not the same situation as we have seen in the ME.

- This is very true. The ME enemy that appears today is so totally different than any enemy we have ever had. They have discovered that the gov't should never lead the war. They are the armies that fight with nations denying any connection to them. They deny knowledge or alliegence or support.

I read American blogs because our boys are fighting in Afghanistan too. Remember? Bush thanked Canada for doing all of the heavy lifting less than a week ago. I do not think this is the first time you've bashed Canadians - maybe you should sit back and think for a bit about who your allies are and how they should be treated.

Not so sure about bashing canadians in general. I was criticizing you. And I've criticized Spud here. Not sure who else is a canadian. And yes, I do find it strange the obsession some canadians have with our political process -- and usually positing a "Left' point of view. I think you would be hard pressed to find an American with a similar obsession with canadian blogs.

As for how we treat our allies....no nation on earth has treated their allies better then America -- no other other time in history have so many countries such as canada, and all of Europe not have to maintain a huge military because they know the USA will do so and protect them if their sovereinty is ever really threatened.

What I get a kick out of is right wingers criticizing us lefties for our thoughts about Israel when much of the "support" Israel receives from the right has nothing to do with "love" for Israel but is really just Armageddon philosophy. In reality much of the right is anti-semetic, always has been.

"""...but after four years of the Carter presidency, both inflation and unemployment were considerably worse than at the time of his inauguration. The annual inflation rate rose from 4.8% in 1976 to 6.8% in 1977, 9% in 1978, 11% in 1979, and hovered around 12% at the time of the 1980 election campaign."

And inflation will probably continue to grow after Bush leaves office too but that won't change the fact that it was created during his presidency. Same was true for Carter. It is easy to blame Carter for the problems which originated with Nixon and Vietnam.
I'm thinking you're doing the toking today from some of your comments. ARe you doing prescription meds??? Yeah, that's it, one of those prescription junkies like Rush.

Say it isn't so AU!!!!

It makes all the righties so mad when you post proof of Bush's incompetency??? complicity???

Choose one.

Bowa
You should hear yourself - because the Arabs wouldn't go along with the partition, it's their fault.

face it ray, its the arab states who were the aggressors and have been from day 1.

I just spent the last hour or two explaining why! One last time: They were aggressors AFTER 1948 because of events BEFORE 1948. Like all other apologists, you insist on ignoring the BEFORE side of the equation.

Israel has only done what it needs to do to survive.

I also spent the past hour or two explaining why Israel's chances of surviving are slipping.

I've made clear many times. I have nothing to do with lefties or righties. I'm just going to stay on the sidelines and watch the US military empire fall apart. You'll never learn.

In reality much of the right is anti-semetic, always has been.

Posted by danni

Danni, I am reading through your posts.

You are coming dangerously close to being relegated to the ranks of buffalobob.

Don't even blame the "tree huggers" who were the only folks "leading." We better start listening to those "tree huggers" before the oil war mongers get us to invade some other nation for oil.

You are right Danni, we shouldn't blame the Tree huggers for not converting a large part of our electric energy supply to Nuclear Power Power plants ... We should blame the Russians for doing such a shitty job on upkeep and lets not forget the assholes at 3-mile island who couldn't manage to do their fucking jobs.

We also shouldn't blame the tree huggers for not putting windfarms off the coast of say Nantuckett of California. We should blame "not in my back yard" hypocrites.

For once I agree with you, I'm glad we can see eye to eye on this

Clinton blew it.

Thank you for your all-encompassing insight, Bowa.

I'll take one "Clinton blew it" and toss to the August 2001 PDB Bush ignored.

Result: You can blame Clinton for one un-death, while Bush gets to take the rap for 3,0000 real deaths (plus, of course, the others he's caused during his dementia).

Does that mean Bush is a closet "Islamofascist," or just an enabler or tool?

I like how it's "We as a nation got complacent."

Yeah! me too! I have tried to do "my" part by conserving and recycling but I am not the Leader of the Free World.

I (and we as a Nation) can only work with what is available to us. I have to work to feed my family. To do that I have to drive. Our transportation system is the basis of our robust economy. Why is it that the electric car is only now becoming available to me? (The Chevy Volt is the closest thing to what I would buy but it is not quite there yet!) Why is it we do not have better mileage standards? Because WE as a Nation voted for lower mileage? You think that drilling in ANWAR would have solved this? You think we as individuals can solve this?

NO!

The leaders of this nation have failed in their responsibility to protect us from this National Security Crisis. They have only recently admitted that we HAVE a crisis! We should have been working on this since Carter and you ALL should know that (I see Danni does!).

Personally, I believe it is possible that this whole situation was by design and I am very saddened for my Nation and my children by that prospect.

we shouldn't blame the Tree huggers for not converting a large part of our electric energy supply to Nuclear Power Power plants ...

Oh so you have figured out what to do with the Nuclear waste that lasts for thousands of years!

oooo I am soo excited! Care to share your great revelation with the rest of the World?

HINT: Yucca Mountain and shooting the waste into the Sun is STILL not the answer!

For once I agree with you, I'm glad we can see eye to eye on this

Posted by chlorinehair5

Nice of you to say so chlorine. Hey, wait a minute! Are you being sarcastic?
You're right though, insisting that nuclear power is safe and yuppies (not tree huggers) not wanting windfarms near their property is exactly equal to years of oil industry driven national and foreign policy.

""We should blame "not in my back yard" hypocrites.""

You'll get no argument from me on that.

It will take sacrifice on the part of all Americans to change our energy supply from dependence to independence. It should be priority number one but unfortunately it is second to oil..

Oh and nuclear power has one big problem....the waste....it is a disaster waiting to happen wheverever you store it and transporting it just multiplies the threat.

"And inflation will probably continue to grow after Bush leaves office too but that won't change the fact that it was created during his presidency. Same was true for Carter. It is easy to blame Carter for the problems which originated with Nixon and Vietnam."

Danni, I'm going to conclude that too much time on the bong has blurred your eyesight because I have to ASSUME you can read and comprehend the LITTLE words. Read below what the situatin was: Nixon resigned in August of 1974 and inflation was 12.2 percent when Ford took office. Two years later, inflation had been REDUCED to 4.6%. Reduced, Danni...REDUCED TO 4.6% for the first half of 1976. Reduced means lessened, made smaller during Ford's two years. One more time...GOING UP WHEN FORD TOOK OFFICE, DOWN TO 4.8% WHEN CARTER TOOK OFFICE. (Can you read it now? Can you comprehend it?)

"The inflation rate was going up at 12.2 percent a year when President Ford took office.
The inflation rate was down to 4.6 percent for the first half of 1976."

Now, how in hell can you torment your drugged up brain to come up with Nixon and Ford being responsible for inflation during Carter's administration? See below where it INCREASED every year he was in office. Face it Danni...Carter's administration was a disaster on the economy. He wasn't a bad man, but was certainly not good to the economy.

"...but after four years of the Carter presidency, both inflation and unemployment were considerably worse than at the time of his inauguration. The annual inflation rate rose from 4.8% in 1976 to 6.8% in 1977, 9% in 1978, 11% in 1979, and hovered around 12% at the time of the 1980 election campaign."

"LOL

Just admit it already -- you hate jews."

BOWA - why don't you stop antagonizing people and have an intelligent debate? Seems to me that you are the one who takes issue with any religious group, nationality and probably gender who doesn't agree directly with whatever it is you are saying. Whatever the hell it is you are trying to say besides right is right, and only on your terms, taht is.

"And inflation will probably continue to grow after Bush leaves office too but that won't change the fact that it was created during his presidency. Same was true for Carter. It is easy to blame Carter for the problems which originated with Nixon and Vietnam."

Danni, I'm going to conclude that too much time on the bong has blurred your eyesight because I have to ASSUME you can read and comprehend the LITTLE words. Read below what the situatin was: Nixon resigned in August of 1974 and inflation was 12.2 percent when Ford took office. Two years later, inflation had been REDUCED to 4.6%. Reduced, Danni...REDUCED TO 4.6% for the first half of 1976. Reduced means lessened, made smaller during Ford's two years. One more time...GOING UP WHEN FORD TOOK OFFICE, DOWN TO 4.8% WHEN CARTER TOOK OFFICE. (Can you read it now? Can you comprehend it?)

"The inflation rate was going up at 12.2 percent a year when President Ford took office.
The inflation rate was down to 4.6 percent for the first half of 1976."

Now, how in hell can you torment your drugged up brain to come up with Nixon and Ford being responsible for inflation during Carter's administration? See below where it INCREASED every year he was in office. Face it Danni...Carter's administration was a disaster on the economy. He wasn't a bad man, but was certainly not good to the economy.

"...but after four years of the Carter presidency, both inflation and unemployment were considerably worse than at the time of his inauguration. The annual inflation rate rose from 4.8% in 1976 to 6.8% in 1977, 9% in 1978, 11% in 1979, and hovered around 12% at the time of the 1980 election campaign."

AmericanUnity, from your link:

And so it has gone for six years. American intelligence officials interviewed by NEWSWEEK ruefully agree that the hunt to find bin Laden has been more a game of chance than good or "actionable" intelligence.

Maybe its not as cut and dry as you've interpretted it to be...

PS putting this in the title (How the U.S. let him get away) was deceptive...

MSNBC, correspondent Andrea Mitchell just described the murder of Benazir Bhutto as a "setback" for Bhutto.

Just admit it already -- you hate jews.

Posted by Bowa at 2007-12-27 01:16 PM

I hate morons who constantly deflect the source of Israel's problems.

When I see that map, it reminds me that a tiny country in the middle of all that Muslum activity ain't going to make it. It was a stupid idea.

Here's another interesting paragraph from your link AU...

When the United States struck Afghanistan in 2001, "there were probably 3,000 core Al Qaeda operatives," says Arquilla of the Naval Postgraduate School. "We killed or captured about 1,000; about 1,000 more ended up in distant parts of the world. And about 1,000 ended up in Waziristan. But the great terror university in Afghanistan is gone; they've relied on the Web since. They haven't had the hands-on instruction and the bonding of the camps. That's resulted in low-skill levels. Their tradecraft is really much poorer."

Maybe all the liberal hyperbole about failure in Afghanistan is just their typical bullshit...

damn now look what you made me do...

Clinton fired almost 70 cruise missles at Bin Laden when his whereabouts were known.

Yes, and other times he halted attacks...

Specifically an incident where Bin Laden's hunting camp was found, and our forces were ready to destroy it, but it was called off because a plane belonging to one of the Arab royal families was in the area, and they thought a prince might be in the party...

Boy,

You know why the Volt is the closet thing to a viable electric car since the 1910's (yeah they did actually have cars that ran on battery power back then, they were marketed as a women's car because of their low power, but great for running to the market to get some produce)

Have you always driven a small car? like in the mid 90's when gas was $0.99/Gal? I'm not saying you didn't but most people who are on their save us from Arab oil kick weren't complaining when you could fill up for $15.

What the world needs now is a lot fewer 30-40 year women driving the Fucking honor students around in a 6mph suburban. That would be a good start. Although if they can afford the gas it's not really the governments place to tell her what she can or can't drive, you know the who freedom and liberty and we are not the USSR stuff. HOWEVER, if she has a vote Democrat sticker on her back window someone should really do the world a favor and run her off the road. Not for being a Democrat but for the hypocracy

So A-Hole, are you telling us that there were 3,000 core Al Qaeda in Afghanistan at the beginning and now there are none? Who the hell is shooting at us then?

Isn't Islam GREAT!!!!!

Danni get your facts right Bhutto was 100% against radical Islam.. Musharraf was in the middle..

correction - I should have said thousands of windfarms in California there are currently about 13,000.

Grow a pair and deal with the answer.

Posted by Danforth


Your answer is bullshit...

Who gives a fuck if attacks are up in Muslim countries... that's the bed they made.

Are attacks up in the United States? On our Embassies? On our allies?

Sorry I forgot about the volt when I went on my little tirade. We don't have electric car because Oil was cheap for a long time, and we still don't have a great way to store the electricity. Although battery tech has come a long way and higher gas prices are going to help that along.

Thank you for your all-encompassing insight, Bowa.

Wow. Lots of compliments today. Thanks.

:-)

ROB

And when Bush DID know where Bin Laden and Zawahiri were they REFUSED to kill them. Nothing like cutting off the head of the snake. But, NOOOOO.

Keep up Rob. Bush blew every opportunity we've had to kill Bin Laden. And I don't wanna hear the 'Clinton didn't kill him' response. It wasn't confirmed that Bin Laden was responsible for the Cole attack UNTIL after Bush took office. HIS response? Move all cruise missles out of range that could kill him.

"Blowa"

Wow my 3rd "spoofer"

Very cool.

Still not as good as "dumbspud" but I guess I'll just have to take quantity over quality.

So A-Hole, are you telling us that there were 3,000 core Al Qaeda in Afghanistan at the beginning and now there are none? Who the hell is shooting at us then?

Posted by RastaCyborg


I posted a paragraph from AmericanUnity's link... Its not my quote... take it up with AU and the publisher of his link...

What that is saying is that the training ground that was Afghanistan is gone for terrorists and that the skill level of terrorists coming out of Al Qaeda now is much poorer...

The truth about Clinton and Bin Laden:

In August 1998, President Clinton ordered missile strikes against targets in Afghanistan in an effort to hit Osama bin Laden, who had been linked to the embassy bombings in Africa (and was later connected to the attack on the USS Cole). The missiles reportedly missed bin Laden by a few hours, and Clinton was widely criticized by many who claimed he had ordered the strikes primarily to draw attention away from the Monica Lewinsky scandal. As John F. Harris wrote in The Washington Post:

In August 1998, when [Clinton] ordered missile strikes in an effort to kill Osama bin Laden, there was widespread speculation -- from such people as Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) -- that he was acting precipitously to draw attention away from the Monica S. Lewinsky scandal, then at full boil. Some said he was mistaken for personalizing the terrorism struggle so much around bin Laden. And when he ordered the closing of Pennsylvania Avenue in front of the White House after domestic terrorism in Oklahoma City, some Republicans accused him of hysteria.

. . . the federal budget on anti-terror activities tripled during Clinton's watch, to about $6.7 billion. After the effort to kill bin Laden with missiles in August 1998 failed -- he had apparently left a training camp in Afghanistan a few hours earlier -- recent news reports have detailed numerous other instances, as late as December 2000, when Clinton was on the verge of unleashing the military again. In each case, the White House chose not to act because of uncertainty that intelligence was good enough to find bin Laden, and concern that a failed attack would only enhance his stature in the Arab world.

. . . people maintain Clinton should have adapted Bush's policy promising that regimes that harbor terrorism will be treated as severely as terrorists themselves, and threatening to evict the Taliban from power in Afghanistan unless leaders meet his demands to produce bin Laden and associates. But Clinton aides said such a policy -- potentially involving a full-scale war in central Asia -- was not plausible before politics the world over became transformed by one of history's most lethal acts of terrorism.

Clinton's former national security adviser, Samuel R. Berger . . . said there [was] little prospect . . . that Pakistan would have helped the United States wage war against bin Laden or the Taliban in 1998, even after such outrages as the bombing of U.S. embassies overseas.

How about this for an option...

cut the shit or everyone dies?
Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2007-12-27 12:05 PM


YEAH!

From OBL's Lips to Yours

I bet it makes him proud to have such ferocious advocates of his message as you and Bowa!

Rob

Your Clinton comment has no bearing. He tried to kill Bin Laden - several times.

Bush has been president since before AND after 9/11. Bin Laden and Zawahiri are still alive and well and leading Al Qaeda. The poster boys for the Islamic terrorists who killed Bhutto today.

That should piss you off.

And I don't wanna hear the 'Clinton didn't kill him' response.

of course, because it doesn't fit in with your hate bush narrative.

But we all know that Clinton had the best shot to take him out, and he blew it.

It wasn't confirmed that Bin Laden was responsible for the Cole attack UNTIL after Bush took office.

He was still the head of Al Qaeda, who attacked our embassies, our marine baracks in SA, and the Cole...

All you want to do is blame Bush... have opportunities been missed, sure... but if you're going to slam Bush but excuse Clinton then you're just a hack because they both have had chances and failed to capitalize on them.

And btw, cutting off the snakes head in this case isn't going to do a damn thing to stop al qaeda. Zawahiri will take his place... and when he dies or is captured someone will take his place... This war isn't going to be won with a scalpel... a broad sword is needed.

BOWA

Read the article I posted from NEWSWEEK. Makes your statement null and void. Clinton took almost 70 shots at Bin Laden. Bush ZERO. And that's AFTER Al Qaeda attacked us beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Bush has been president for 6 years AFTER the 9/11 attacks. We had a CLEAR shot at the leadership of Al Qaeda and they refused to give the order despite the CIA GOING to the WH to plead for the shot.

But we all know that Clinton had the best shot to take him out, and he blew it.

Posted by Bowa

...and we all know that when Clinton tried to kill bin Laden he was criticized by Republicans for trying to draw attention away from their cock hunt.

Your Clinton comment has no bearing. He tried to kill Bin Laden - several times.


You're a hack dude.

You want to slam Bush for supposedly missing opportunities, but you slam your head into the sand when you are shown opportunities when another did it.

Has no bearing? They had his exact location... he would be dead now... no question about it.

And I'm pretty sure invading Afghanistan and bombing the fuck out of it is trying to kill Bin Laden...

Thank you for your all-encompassing insight, Bowa.

Wow. Lots of compliments today. Thanks.

Ya see ...if Bowa can possible misinterpret anything to spin his way he does it.

That's why Spud likes telling him flat out.

Bowa, yer as asshole and and a propagandist, very much in the style of Goebells, without a trace of scruples or humanity, who is, very obviously, an astro-turfer, here to muddy the waters of the debate by repeating, endlessly, discredited talking points that even you don't believe in.

Stuff like that, that he can't spin, he just ignores.

Either that or he'll ask fer Silly Puddy to return or sommat equally inane.

Be Well.

ROB

Clinton tried Bush didn't even after it was confirmed Al Qaeda was behind those attacks.

You guys are going to deflect no matter how much evidence I post, so I'll leave you to your fantasies.

correction - I should have said thousands of windfarms in California there are currently about 13,000.

Are you saying that clean, green, renewable wind energy doesn't cut it?

Read the article I posted from NEWSWEEK. Makes your statement null and void.

AU, Read the article I posted from MSNBC. Makes your statement null and void.

ROB

Clinton tried Bush didn't even after it was confirmed Al Qaeda was behind those attacks.

You guys are going to deflect no matter how much evidence I post, so I'll leave you to your fantasies.

Had it been Clinton in office NOW, you'd be screaming your head off.

ROB

Clinton tried Bush didn't even after it was confirmed Al Qaeda was behind those attacks.

You guys are going to deflect no matter how much evidence I post, so I'll leave you to your fantasies.

Had it been Clinton in office NOW, you'd be screaming your head off. Sychophants. Best word I can come up with.

You guys are going to deflect no matter how much evidence I post, so I'll leave you to your fantasies.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY


Jackass, I'm admitting Bush has missed opportunities...

Why are you unable to even acknowledge the hunting party incident?

Some said he was mistaken for personalizing the terrorism struggle so much around bin Laden.

Rasty I remember that! Hmm what did they call it then?

Oh yes ... Does Wag the Dog sound familiar?

Interesting how it seems to lead back to that Blow Job and how that Owl face Henry Hyde led the Nation down the path of Puritan Self Righteous Indignation against the evil Clintons.

Meanwhile, while America played the political fiddle, Osama schemed and plotted and set his traps and set his evil plans into motion.

BOWA

The wealth of confirming information that Bush doesn't WANT to kill Bin Laden is overwhelming.

You're a Bush sycophant. No amount of facts will convince you that Bush has handled the 'War on Terrorism' horribly.

Multiple NIE reports stating he's made us LESS safe, multiple sources confirming Bush has had shots at Bin Laden he didn't take, Saddam offering to go into exile for what we've spent since Tuesday......

Tell me WHY Bowa? (This oughta be good.....)

"HIS response? Move all cruise missles out of range that could kill him."

That would have been a pretty big move seeing as how the sea-launched Tomahawk missile has a range of about a thousand miles.

YEAH!

Except I place the blame squarely on Reagan.


YEAH!!!

Except no one was talking to you...

irrelevant fuck...

Bhutto had more balls than George W Bush could ever hope to have. She went back to Pakistan - despite the death threats - to bring democracy to Pakistan.

She went back to Pakistan - despite the death threats - to bring democracy to Pakistan.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY


Fine line between balls and insanity...

Anyone surprised to hear muslims killed Bhutto has been living in a cave...

irrelevant fuck...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2007-12-27 01:53 PM

Kinda like Bobby Bowden at FSU?

How's your wife and my kid you whiny little prick?

Maybe we should have listened to them when they killed the Jewish athletes at the Olympics. you know all the Allah Akbar shit.

There is no good way to deal with a bunch of tent dwelling, 12th century mentality, back-asswards, shitheads. (if anyone else has a better expression for the entire ME let me know)

irrelevant fuck...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2007-12-27 01:53 PM

Kinda like Bobby Bowden at FSU?

How's your wife and my kid you whiny little prick?

irrelevant fuck...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2007-12-27 01:53 PM

Kinda like Bobby Bowden at FSU?

How's your wife and my kid you whiny little prick?

Yeah, that publish button sure is hard to master isn't it Itsy?

"Your wife and my kid," wow, you are original...

It has just occurred to me that Al Quaeda, if they are really responsible for this assasination, may regret their decision. Now they are clearly the enemies of the Pakistani people who are not all religious extremists. I wonder if this event could turn Al Quaeda into an endangered species.

If a group were responsible for assasination of a popular leader here I am sure they would become public enemy number one. Seems to me that Al Quaeda changes their war from one with the west to one with even their fellow Muslims.

For Clinton bashers (the guy who fired a LOT of cruise missles at Bin Laden):

"Because of the intensity of the political opposition that Clinton engendered, he had been heavily criticized for bombing al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan, for engaging in 'Wag the Dog' tactics. . . . For similar reasons, he could not fire the recalcitrant FBI director who had failed to fix the bureau or uncover terrorists in the United States. He had given the CIA unprecedented authority to go after Osama bin Laden personally and al Qaeda, but had not taken steps when they did little or nothing. Because Clinton was criticized as a Vietnam War opponent without a military record, he was limited in his ability to direct the military to engage in anti-terrorist commando operations they did not want to conduct. . . . In the absence of a bigger provocation from al Qaeda to silence his critics, Clinton thought he could do no more.

They did the same thing to him over Somalia - where Bush 41 sent 28,000 U.S. Forces in December 2000, promising (broken promise) to have them home before Clinton took office. The REPS, including McCain, were screaming to high heaven about our presence there in spite of the fact that Clinton didn't send them in in the first place.

Tell me WHY Bowa? (This oughta be good.....)

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2007-12-27 01:51 PM

OOO OOO I know this one!

Because Bush wanted War all along! Not being very bright he decided (as deciders do!) that he could be the War President and with the Forever War he could then acquire unprecedented power in the Executive Branch (which Cheney is not a part of mind you).

Not only did he "allow" 9/11 to happen (see Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the US memo)

He planned to attack Iraq regardless of what happened...see Downing Street Memo.

You see once a Forever War is started then anything goes!

The rich get richer and well, you know, who cares about the rest!

Am I close?

Lot of zebra diagnoses going on here...

How many Muslims in that area hate women, and the west? Instead of a big government or political conspiracy, maybe it was just one of the psychos...

When you hear hoofs, its probably a horse...

For Clinton bashers (the guy who fired a LOT of cruise missles at Bin Laden):

I knew you'd ignore it...

The nearest the CIA came to killing Bin Laden was on the hunting trip in February 1999

Yeah, that publish button sure is hard to master isn't it Itsy?


Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2007-12-27 01:58 PM

Yeah Small Man. Kinda like you after your third Shirley Temple.

Tell "Itsy" junior I said Hi, then watch him smile for the first time.

JESTGETTINALONG

What part of 'out of range' didn't you understand (regarding Bush's repositioning destroyers and subs with cruise missle out of range)?

Yeah, that publish button sure is hard to master isn't it Itsy?


Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2007-12-27 01:58 PM

Be careful Rob. Itsme will definately flag your posts.

In any case, I don't think he likes girls.

I hope this will force Musharraf to carpet bomb Waziristan and eliminate the Al Qaeda and Islamic radical's safe haven.

If he doesn't, I think the Pakisani's will force him to.

I'd have your "Gaydar" checked out Eberly.

It has just occurred to me that Al Quaeda, if they are really responsible for this assasination, may regret their decision. Now they are clearly the enemies of the Pakistani people who are not all religious extremists. I wonder if this event could turn Al Quaeda into an endangered species.


LOL

Well, going after Al Quaeda might provoke more people to join them. Afterall, they have been growing in numbers since attacking us.......right?

Are you saying that going after Al Quaeda might actually aid in defeating Al Quaeda? Perhaps they should negotiate with them.

Again,


LOL

There is no good way to deal with a bunch of tent dwelling, 12th century mentality, back-asswards, shitheads. (if anyone else has a better expression for the entire ME let me know)

Posted by chlorinehair5 at 2007-12-27 01:56 PM


hmm yes there is...It is called an Education. And of course, a nice warm shower and a full belly works wonders too. Hmm lets see Opportunity helps too! Gosh there are a lot of things that seem to help! However, killing them doesn't seem to be working very well now does it?

Education also works very well against the virus of any Religion and particularly against Fundamentalist Religion. It also seems to annoy and deter Right Wing Republicans too.

We should have helped the soviets crush them in the 80's instead of teaching the jihadists to shoot down choppers. Opps.

""Are you saying that going after Al Quaeda might actually aid in defeating Al Quaeda? Perhaps they should negotiate with them."

No, I'm saying that Muslim Pakistanis going after Al Quaeda might be an outcome which would also serve our purposes. For the US to go after Al Quaeda in Pakistan would cause more problems for us with the Muslim world. My hope is that the Pakistanis might grow tired of Al Quaeda with this assasination of a popular leader.

Be careful Rob. Itsme will definately flag your posts.


Of course he will... its all he's got... well that and a Junior High diploma... LOL but he can buy and sell me!

Rob the IgnorANUS,

And I'm pretty sure invading Afghanistan and bombing the fuck out of it is trying to kill Bin Laden...

Really?

Spud's pretty sure the guy who allowed the Bin Ladens to fly home the day after 9/11, you know... when Americans were dying because even air ambulances weren't allowed to operate, that THAT,/i> guy doesn't want Bin Laden dead or even captured alive.

The guy who shut down the task force to capture and kill Bin Laden in 2005? He's trying to kill Bin Laden?

S'rsly?

The guy who allowed Bin Laden to escape at Tora Bora?

You think he's really trying to kill Bin Laden?

Rob, that goes well beyond ignorance and stupidity and goes right into the realm of the full-on delusional.

Bush is Osama Bin Laden's number one poster boy fer Jihadist terrorists.

Bin Laden is Bush's number one boogeyman to frighten simple minded and cowardly Americans like yerself into accepting his so-called war on terror.

Spud's pretty sure that the terrorism thing is just an excuse to de-nationalise the Iraqi oil industry and build a long delayed pipeline project in Afdghanistan but you go ahead and belief woteer yer little heart tells ya to.

Before you or Bowa mininterpret that as always, Spud does believe that the threat of Jihadist Islam is very real and must be countered.

It's just that Spud is pretty sure that the way BushCo have gone about it, they've actually burnt up a coupla trillion dollars and only ended up creating more terrorists than ever before.

Spud would tell ya to think on Spud's word but Spud's pretty sure that yer incapable of thinking fer yerself and Bowa only cares about spreading disinformation regardless of wot he really thinks.

Spud's out fer a bit.

Be Well.

/stage left.

//google "putting out fire with gasline" fer further clues.

Spud's pretty sure that the terrorism thing is just an excuse to de-nationalise the Iraqi oil industry and build a long delayed pipeline project in Afdghanistan but you go ahead and belief woteer yer little heart tells ya to.


Wow!!!

Its rare that you hear this kind of lunacy...

Of course he will... its all he's got

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2007-12-27 02:18 PM

No Rob, unlike you I don't have a fancy cubicle.

I have however had your wife! Introduce her to a "razor"!

No Rob, unlike you I don't have a fancy cubicle.

Posted by itsme


LOL let me guess, you're blogging from your personal jet right? Oh no wait, your yacht right?

LMAO!!! Tell us more Bill Gates

Education, Haha ... good one.

That sounds as good as winning the hearts and minds.

Someone said this earlier "how do you compete with 72 virgins"

Even better there are Muslim women living in this country that go along with aranged marriges. A lot of good education did them.

Even better there are people in this country who want to teach that the earth is 6000 years old and that there were a pair of T-Rexs on Noah's Ark.

I am right in line you on calling religion a virus, but thinking a few good books will solve our problem is a little far fetched

dear big dick cheney:

with your big stick, why haven't you caught bin laden?

love,
nancy

LOL! No you little queef! LOL! I'm cracking your ass down from home!

See, Unlike you I'm not stuck in a cubic...err "corner office" like you.

LOL Bitch.

Oh yeah, LOL!

I'm on my back porch.

It's sunny and 78 degrees! LOL!

I'll bet jersey/Philthydelphia sucks this time of year!

LOL!

I'm cracking your ass down from home!

This just keeps getting better and better...

Unemployed... oh no wait, self employed? Wait, Independent Consultant right?

Don't worry about how I make my money college boy!

How's that cubicle working for you, Wobbie.

Don't worry about how I make my money college boy!

COLLEGE BOY!!!! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAhAHAh...

This is so classic... lol... enjoy your porch and nighttrain...

It sounds like ITSME is at home in his nursery.....

I hope this will force Musharraf to carpet bomb Waziristan and eliminate the Al Qaeda and Islamic radical's safe haven.

If he doesn't, I think the Pakisani's will force him to.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2007-12-27 02:09 PM

I believe you have touched on the heart of the matter.

Musharraf has been unable to move against the extremists in his own country. Why did he declare a State of Emergency?...he said it was a Conspiracy against him.

Why did he lift the State of Emergency just before Benazir Bhutto was killed? Maybe the conspiracy was not about killing him at all. Maybe this WAS the conspiracy.

Sounds to me just how Al Queda thinks.

The affect may be the same. But, now it all depends on what Musharaf does. So, if he responds they way AQ wants him too (like puppet Bush does) then the trap will be set and Musharaf will topple.

And chaos will reign supreme once again.

The candle flame gutters. Its little pool of light trembles. Darkness gathers. The demons begin to stir. [Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science As a Candle in the Dark]

"This war isn't going to be won with a scalpel... a broad sword is needed."

BS..the more we swing the more numbers that replace..how about some economic advantage and opportunity? Get Starbucks and flushing toilets all over Iraq..

Its rare that you hear this kind of lunacy...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2007-12-27 02:22 PM

not really... read anything you wrote lately?

And I'm pretty sure invading Afghanistan and bombing the fuck out of it is trying to kill Bin Laden...

not only is THAT lunacy it is also a bit naive.

Spud's pretty sure that the terrorism thing is just an excuse to de-nationalise the Iraqi oil industry and build a long delayed pipeline project in Afdghanistan but you go ahead and belief woteer yer little heart tells ya to.

Wow!!!

Its rare that you hear this kind of lunacy...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Of course you won't take the word of the highly respected (on both sides of the aisle) Paul O'Neill, who wrote in his book "The Price of Loyalty" that the 1st item on the agenda of the very first Bush cabinet meeting in February 2001 was Iraq. (before 9/11/2001)

They rolled out a large map of Iraq, complete with oil fields allocated to various oil services companies, with the statement "We're going in".

This is so classic... lol... enjoy your porch and nighttrain...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2007-12-27 02:33 PM | Reply

Enjoy your dead end job and the shithole you live in.

Oh yeah. Try to come up with some creative comebacks.

The whole "middle school" diploma thing was cute the first time. Now it's getting a little stale.

No what we need to do is introduce every boy between 10-18 to a victoria secret or Maxim and wait hold off the fanatics for a few more years. In a decade there wont be a tiny thought of shria law.

Sounds to me just how Al Queda thinks.

I forgot to mention that this is also how the CIA thinks so don't think I am buying the AQ connection just yet.

Oh yeah. Try to come up with some creative comebacks.

Like the "I slept with your wife" variations you are throwing out?

See the difference is, you actually are a high school drop out, whereas my wife would never be seen with a guy who only has a junior high diploma...

and judging by the fact that you "work" at home I'm guessing you have either some sort of handicap or are morbidly obese... which one is it? could it be both... are you in a massive wheel chair?

No what we need to do is introduce every boy between 10-18 to a victoria secret or Maxim and wait hold off the fanatics for a few more years. In a decade there wont be a tiny thought of shria law.

Posted by chlorinehair5

Actually, bin Laden was reportedly quite a playboy in his youth before he "found god".
Cutting off the finances is the only good way to stop these nutjobs and that's not as difficult as people think. How much of a sacrifice are we willing to make? That's the question.

That is a big fan and bigger pile of shit. Adjust your seatbelts and hang on.

How much of a sacrifice are we willing to make? That's the question.

Posted by RastaCyborg


I like most americans have no interest in riding public transportation...

Build nuke plants and pump every drop of oil we have while fully funding alternative energy resources... it will take time, but in the long run it will be best for us.

Neither Little Man.

I'm guessing that since you had to go to college to make what you think is "Big Money", that you're a bitter little prick who just can't fathom anyone making great money without having gone to "Kolledge"

It's gotta suck to be you.


And yes, FSU does suck.

Have what you would consider a "happy" new year, Wobbie.

I look foward to fucking with your little pin head next year. Now get back to work before the boss catches you wasting company time .

Check your blood sugar levels Itsy... It sounds like your type II diabetes is out of control...

You don't want to lose your other foot do you?

Build nuke plants...

Rob you ignorance bitch! (apologies to SNL)

Please share with us your wonderful solution to the nuclear waste problem that is created by these plants.

Your simplistic solutions reveal the depth of your ignorance.

Please share with us your wonderful solution to the nuclear waste problem that is created by these plants.


Deal with that later on... but for the moment Yucca mountain comes to mind... I'm sure there are other desolate areas where we could store them.

You should watch the Penn&Teller Bullshit episode on Nuclear Energy...

Your simplistic solutions reveal the depth of your ignorance.

Posted by donnerboy


Simplistic? Building nuclear power plants would take years and billions of dollars, but it seems to help France out a lot... its clean (except for the biproduct) and it would greatly help to get us off oil.

There is no overnight solution...

Yucca Mountain, not due to open until 2020, positioned less than 100 miles from the fastest growing metropolitan area in the U.S., located in the state that ranks third for seismic activity. Sounds like a job for Penn and Teller.

The question of nuclear waste was quietly solved just a while back.

All such waste will be outsourced(shipped) to India. They will in tearn feed it to the vast numbers of poor.

India's version of retro-active birth control. It will in all likelihood fail as the poor are used to eating just about anything.

in the state that ranks third for seismic activity.

The containers that these spent rods are transported in have been tested by hitting them with freight trains, and setting them on fire...

They'll be fine.

Yucca Mountain, not due to open until 2020

Speed up the process by no longer fighting its existence and further funding it...

Question: Where do the spent fuel rods and other waste from our nuke plants go now if Yucca isn't opened?

positioned less than 100 miles from the fastest growing metropolitan area in the U.S.,

Does it intend on growing underground and inside a mountain?

""Yucca Mountain""
In Nevada where Nevadans don't want nuclear waste but hey, why should they have any say about it???

The storage really is the simpler part of the problem anyway, it's the transporting it that is really scary. Rail??? Truck??? Air???
There will be accidents, that would spell disaster....somewhere.

Saddam's Ouster Planned In '01 - (excerpts)

The Bush Administration began laying plans for an invasion of Iraq, including the use of American troops, within days of President Bush's inauguration in January of 2001 -- not eight months later after the 9/11 attacks as has been previously reported.

O'Neill is quoted as saying he was surprised that no one in a National Security Council meeting questioned why Iraq should be invaded. "It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying 'Go find me a way to do this. '"

"From the very beginning, there was a conviction that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go," he tells Stahl. "For me, the notion of pre-emption, that the U.S. has the unilateral right to do whatever we decide to do is a really huge leap."

O'Neill also is quoted saying in the book that President Bush was so disengaged in cabinet meetings that he "was like a blind man in a roomful of deaf people."

O'Neill is also quoted in the book as saying the administration's decision-making process was so flawed that often top officials had no real sense of what the president wanted them to do, forcing them to act on "little more than hunches about what the president might think."

A lack of dialogue, according to O'Neill, was the norm in cabinet meetings he attended. And it was similar in one-on-one meetings, says O'Neill. Of his first such meeting with the president, O'Neill says, "I went in with a long list of things to talk about and, I thought, to engage [him] on...I was surprised it turned out me talking and the president just listening...It was mostly a monologue."

Paul O'Neill says he is going public because he thinks the Bush Administration has been too secretive about how decisions have been made.

In the book, O'Neill says that the president did not make decisions in a methodical way: there was no free-flow of ideas or open debate.

He also says that President Bush was disengaged, at least on domestic issues, and that disturbed him. And he says that wasn't his experience when he worked as a top official under Presidents Nixon and Ford, or the way he ran things when he was chairman of Alcoa.

O'Neill readily agreed to tell his story to the book's author Ron Suskind and he adds that he's taking no money for his part in the book.

Suskind says he interviewed hundreds of people for the book including several cabinet members.

Not only did O'Neill give Suskind his time, he gave him 19,000 internal documents.

"Everything's there: Memoranda to the President, handwritten "thank you" notes, 100-page documents. Stuff that's sensitive," says Suskind, adding that in some cases, it included transcripts of private, high-level National Security Council meetings. "You don't get higher than that."

And what happened at President Bush's very first National Security Council meeting is one of O'Neill's most startling revelations.

(cont.)

"From the very beginning, there was a conviction, that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go," says O'Neill, who adds that going after Saddam was topic "A" 10 days after the inauguration - eight months before Sept. 11.

"From the very first instance, it was about Iraq. It was about what we can do to change this regime," says Suskind. "Day one, these things were laid and sealed."

As treasury secretary, O'Neill was a permanent member of the National Security Council. He says in the book he was surprised at the meeting that questions such as "Why Saddam?" and "Why now?" were never asked.

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying Go find me a way to do this,'" says O'Neill. "For me, the notion of pre-emption, that the U.S. has the unilateral right to do whatever we decide to do, is a really huge leap."

And that came up at this first meeting, says O'Neill, who adds that the discussion of Iraq continued at the next National Security Council meeting two days later.

He got briefing materials under this cover sheet. "There are memos. One of them marked, secret, says, Plan for post-Saddam Iraq,'" adds Suskind, who says that they discussed an occupation of Iraq in January and February of 2001.

Based on his interviews with O'Neill and several other officials at the meetings, Suskind writes that the planning envisioned peacekeeping troops, war crimes tribunals, and even divvying up Iraq's oil wealth.

He obtained one Pentagon document, dated March 5, 2001, and entitled "Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield contracts," which includes a map of potential areas for exploration.

During the campaign, candidate Bush had criticized the Clinton-Gore Administration for being too interventionist:"If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road. And I'm going to prevent that."

"The thing that's most surprising, I think, is how emphatically, from the very first, the administration had said X' during the campaign, but from the first day was often doing Y,'" says Suskind. "Not just saying Y,' but actively moving toward the opposite of what they had said during the election."
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Bush is a liar. Those who believe him about anything are gullible at best.

"They'll be fine."

Oh, well, that settles that.

but it seems to help France out a lot... its clean (except for the biproduct)

the French were sold a bill of goods ... there still is no viable solution to nuclear waste. That problem is being shoved onto the French children to solve. Someday that decision will come back to haunt them. Just like ours has.

I am not saying that these problems can't be solved I am saying that they are NOT being solved.

Yucca mountain is not a solution. It is shoving the problem onto the backs (and backyards) of our children. So, it is with no surprise that Bush favored that "solution".

Are you sure you are not in favor of shooting the "Nuclur" Waste into the Sun Rob? That is also a nice simplistic solution and is right up yer "alley".

I don't believe a word Bush says about anything.

He's blown the GWOT

Now this in Pakistan. Why? Because although Bush saw fit to invade Iraq against the world communitiy's wishes, he refused to bomb Waziristan and further to kill Bin Laden and Zawahiri when they knew exactly where he was.

Are you sure you are not in favor of shooting the "Nuclur" Waste into the Sun Rob? That is also a nice simplistic solution and is right up yer "alley".


Posted by donnerboy


Nuclear energy is a viable solution for our problem in the relative near term. We have places where we can safely store the spent fuel until a better solution can be found...

Typical tree hugging lil' bitch doesn't want anything done that may hurt some bird in Nevada or some shitty reindeer in Alaska...

nah let's keep giving everything to the Arabs, and just say we should get off Foreign oil.

he refused to bomb Waziristan and further to kill Bin Laden and Zawahiri when they knew exactly where he was.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY


the article you posted above says they haven't known exactly his whereabouts and that anytime they've gotten close to him its been by chance...

Alternate site suggestions for storing spent nuclear reactor fuel and other radioactive waste:

(1) The White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, D.C.
(2) The American Museum of Natural History, Central Park West at 79th Street, New York, New York
(3) Walt Disney World, Orlando, Florida