Throwing out the baby out with the bathwater.

Instead of throwing away those machines, why the hell do they not put a printer or something so we can have an auditable, verifiable paper trial?!

This is ridiculuos.

More to the point---Why did various Republicans obstruct efforts to establish paper trails.

This is going to reopen the question Ohio was stolen from Kerry in 2004. It should, because it likely was.

"More to the point---Why did various Republicans obstruct efforts to establish paper trails."

I am sure it's their misguided attempt to be environmentally friendly and not have to kill all those tress.

Of course it was Zed. Common Sense tells You that.
Larry Mohr

You can't beat pencil and paper for cost and reliability.

Letting complicated systems sit idle for a year at a time and then restarting them will always be problematic, unnecessarily expensive.

Optical scanning of soft penciled mark, used in older machine including most public school testing is pretty darn good. The newer technologies are at best wasteful and worse an invitation to rig elections. This has been demonstrated repeatedly, yet Republicans, that know they're in a minority, continue to push this technology.

Excedrin headache #2 for Rudy Giuliani?

In the past week or so Ohio... concluding that the machines that have decided the last several elections really can't be trusted any further than you could throw them.


How convenient that they decide this now.

726,

I'd rather they decide it now, rather than after someone else steals an election.

You can't beat pencil and paper for cost and reliability.

Optical scanning of soft penciled mark, used in older machine including most public school testing is pretty darn good. The newer technologies are at best wasteful and worse an invitation to rig elections. This has been demonstrated repeatedly, yet Republicans, that know they're in a minority, continue to push this technology.

Posted by nutcase

I'm sure this is fool proof. It cannot be cheated by any republican. Ballot boxes were never stuffed before the invention of the voting machine.

It cannot be cheated by any republican.

Ballot boxes were never stuffed before the invention of the voting machine.
POSTED BY SNIPER

Paranoid or feeling guilty?

The point is voting machines were meant to be an improvement over the ballot box.

In its current version in some states it just make "ballot stuffing" easier, less able to be found out and able to be done by one individual.


What part of moving forward and fixing problems didn't you understand?

It's funny that we have no problem trusting computers to control most of our finances. I, for one, probably only conduct 10% of my transactions with actual cash anymore. The rest of money comes and goes via electrons. You'd think there would be an even greater incentive for low-lifes to grab some of the billions of dollars running around computers than to fix elections. Yet, the financial industry seems to have done a relatively good job of keeping most of the money out of hacker's hands.

My point is that "honest" voting machines are definitely possible today. But as usual, when the government buys something, it costs more and is worth less than a similar item produced for the regular consumer market. (Yes I know; regular people don't buy voting machines, but the concept still applies.)

I'm not sure votes can be counted accurately no matter how you decide to do it, though I think I prefer the more traditional hand counting. As long as the hand counting isn't restricted to the US Supreme Court.

(Yes I know; regular people don't buy voting machines, but the concept still applies.)


My worthless analogy isn't worthless because I've added this worthless caveat, thank you...

"More to the point---Why did various Republicans obstruct efforts to establish paper trails."

Oh, you mean like Gov. Jeb Bush. Just a coincidence that one of the states with the most reports of suspicious vote tallies happens to have been run by the president's brother. Just a coincidence.
One thing I've noticed, with Republicans there are all kinds of coincidences.

The best I've heard to date is filling out a card having the card scanned and counted with the card being retained as a paper trail.

Three States Trash Voting Machines

47 more to go.

Good Lord, how will the Republican party survive without their rigged, paperless trail e-voting machines?

"Who can forget Diebold's owner saying he would deliver Ohio for Bush in 2004 and that's exactly what happened."

Virtually every Republican who posts here, that's who can forget. It is a skill that all Republicans develop, it allows them to retain only that information which is approved by the party. That's why you can argue with them about something today, give them the facts and obviously win the argument only to have them come back the very next day making the same argument you proved was wrong the day before...as if you never discussed it before....ala....Valerie Plame wasn't covert, the Republicans didn't cheat in Florida in 2000, Bush never claimed there were WMDs in Iraq, Cheney never pretended Al Quaeda and Saddam were allies....etc.

Who can forget Diebold's owner saying he would deliver Ohio for Bush in 2004 and that's exactly what happened.

Only in the twisted mind of someone who blames everyone else but themselves for their situation in life did this occur.

"Who can forget Diebold's owner saying he would deliver Ohio for Bush in 2004 and that's exactly what happened."

-- CalifChris

Only in the twisted mind of someone who blames everyone else but themselves for their situation in life did this occur.

Posted by slicksterWilly at 2007-12-21 03:45 PM

Awww, now, Slickster, don't forget who OWNS you, baby!!
*grin*

Valerie Plame wasn't covert
Then why did her husband "out" her. He was the first to mention her name to the media.

the Republicans didn't cheat in Florida in 2000
NYTimes/ABC recounted the votes using the most liberal method of counting "invalid" ballots. Bush won again dummy. Just because the "sample" ballot handed out by the DEMS caused the vote to go to Buchanan, you think someone cheated. But you forget how CNN, ABC, CBS were very quick to claim DEM victory in FL before half the state had completed voting. I guess in your mind, it was just a coencidence that the half that had not voted, tradionally voted Republican.

Bush never claimed there were WMDs in Iraq
I haven't heard this parrot talk before.

Cheney never pretended Al Quaeda and Saddam were allies....
He specifically said Zawhari was given haven in Iraq and al Quaeda terrorist camps were in Iraq under Sadam. Verified by the CIA. The same CIA that for the previous 10 years had talked about the threat of Sadams WMD program.

Danni me a favor and slap yourself for me.

Only in the twisted mind of someone who blames everyone else but themselves for their situation in life did this occur.

POSTED BY SLICKSTERWILLY



Unless it's Slick blaming either the Media or the Clintons


ROTFLMAO

"More to the point---Why did various Republicans obstruct efforts to establish paper trails."
Privacy. Why did various Democrats obstruct efforts to establish someones identify before allowing them to vote?

"More to the point---Why did various Republicans obstruct efforts to establish paper trails."
Why do democrats obstruct efforts to establish voting across several days. This would accomodate working parents much more than the current system. Oh, I guess I answer my question.

Hell in MANY states You can vote early. I know I voted on October 13 2004 at 10 AM at Our local Court House. Don't give Me that Poppycock that people need more time bullshit.

Larry Mohr

The best I've heard to date is filling out a card having the card scanned and counted with the card being retained as a paper trail.
And what prevents someone from adding a fraudelent cards into the mix.

The issues don't change with electronic voting. But they very well could. Simple but fairly expensive solutions uses by business everyday to transfer billions of dollars and millions of emails are readily available, but will be rejected. Remember, the politicians will reject anything that resembles a loss of power for the ruling elite.

Who can forget Diebold's owner saying he would deliver Ohio for Bush in 2004 and that's exactly what happened.
Posted by CalifChris

Chris - I'd like to see a link for that statement by Diebold.

Don't give Me that Poppycock that people need more time bullshit.
Why would you oppose a 3 day voting period? Afraid of something?

Tap Tap Tap is this thing on???? I voted October 13 the election occured on November Second. My Math ain't too good but I would bet a billion dollars there are more than 3 Days between the two.

Larry Mohr

Chris - I'd like to see a link for that statement by Diebold.
It doesn't exist in the context Chris used it. I think the guy was part of the Rep reelection cmte in OH. Which Chris interprets as instant access into the machines to change them as he pleased. Just think how many locations, this dude must have gone to in order to pull this off. Oh, but maybe he got to the software and rigged it there. Queue the 'twilite zone' music.

My Math ain't too good but I would bet a billion dollars there are more than 3 Days between the two.
Why are opposed to the polls being open for 3 days instead of 1?

Thank you Zap. I will research this.

"Oh, but maybe he got to the software and rigged it there."

Gawd, you're laughable.

I'll bet you never saw the HBO special on vote-rigging, where they demonstrated on camera, in real time how easy it was to hack into the system, within seconds of a company representative claiming that sort of thing was impossible.

They then conducted a mock vote, in front of the camera, in which the machine-reported outcome was way off from the actual witnessed votes.

The state? Ohio.

And right after being shown how the software could be hacked, they bought $20 million of the machines.

"Why do democrats obstruct efforts to establish voting across several days. "

Read federal election law and get back to us.

Gawd, you're laughable.


Easy there, Slick and Shrub are only now coming to terms with the "Internets".


After all the concept of "instant access into the machines to change them".

No one could have imagined ....

That's an interesting argument: people need privacy so much they never want to prove to anyone they voted at all.

It was only a few years ago, but I'll describe to you the spirit of the times----

Utopia is imminent, provided only we keep a Democrat out of the White House.

But after four more years, even the Red State blogs don't talk about Bush when they can avoid it.

All that effort attempting to keep the Republic safe from Kerry and a rat got the cheese anyway. Almost funny, if I didn't live here.

people need privacy so much they never want to prove to anyone they voted at all.
POSTED BY ZED


In Slick World needing proof beyond what is ready in place isn't an invasion in privacy.

By the Repubs own admission a strong turn out spells an out come not to their liking.

The 2004 elections were stolen.

Get over it.

Fix the problem before the next election is the only logical action to take here.

The game is rigged enuff as it exists right now.

No need to make it official or nothing.

Be Well.

Come on, spud.

Knowing how it happened before is a necessary pre-requisite to prevent it from happening again.

All I'm saying....

You mean before someone steals another election. The machines can't be trusted. Not yet.