Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, December 18, 2007

The new Gallup poll finds that Barack Obama would be a stronger Democratic nominee than Hillary Clinton. Either of them could win when matched up against three top Republicans, but Obama has stronger margins and is above 50% support for himself in all three cases:

Liberal Blog Advertising Network

Menu

Subscriptions

Author Info

tonyroma

MORE STORIES

Special Features

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in the discussion of this weblog entry should note the site's moderation policy.

Now that Obama has crossed the 50% threshold against the 3 leading Republican candidates, what's going to be the next tactic utilized by the Clinton's to try and stem what appears to be an irreversible tide moving in Obama's direction?

With 47% of America stating they would never vote for Senator Clinton, how can she continue to make the case that she's the most electable Democrat when Obama has reached near-landslide proportions against Romney?

Tony - you and I have both talked about the need to move beyond the 50%+1 Presidential elections that have divided the country for too long. I think this is a good (although still early) indicator that Obama has the best chance to put together that coalition of Democrats, Independents, and moderate Republicans to accomplish that.

I also just read that the Republicans for Obama movement seems to be picking up steam. In Nevada nearly 700 Republicans have pledged to caucus for Obama.

Tony: Just imagine what a landslide Hillary/Obama in either order will be.
RudiG is the only one they'd have to break a sweat for and he's circling the drain even as we snicker.

"Just imagine what a landslide Hillary/Obama in either order will be."

I just can't imagine Hillary would ever consider the #2 spot. I think Obama might, but my money is on Wes Clark for #2 if Hillary is nominated.

Obama's #2, if he gets the nomination, will be Jim Webb - at least that is where my money is.

"Obama's #2, if he gets the nomination, will be Jim Webb"

Hadn't thought about him. Excellent choice overall, but a pretty strong personality for a #2.

SA, I think Obama will need a strong personality behind him to help push him over the hump, plus Webb has the military experience. He is no genral, like Clark, but he does know the military.

I picked Webb as Obama's ideal running mate months ago. Both aren't beholden to the Democratic Party, and both are united in making government work for us instead of against us. Webb adds his impressive credentials in the foreign policy area, and in my opinion puts most of the South into play.

All indicators are pointing toward an Obama landslide in the general election if the Democratic base doesn't let the fearmongering of the Clintonistas keep them from playing the best hand we've had in many generations. As mentioned above, here's just another anecdote to add to the scores that have come before it:

In response to the question "which of the following leading presidential candidates would you most want to prevent from becoming president?"

Hillary: 40%
Guiliani: 17%
Obama: 11%
Romney: 7%
Huck: 5%
Edwards: 2%
McCain: 5%

washingtontimes.com

It's a shame to me that she's running on the "I'm the most electable" platform and neither Edwards or Obama has called her out on it. They should be citing this poll with the one at the top of this page in their stump speeches.


tpmelectioncentral.com

Edwards/Biden '08

www.newsweek.com

Rasmussen
The survey question was: "Sometimes people vote for a candidate mainly because they're voting against someone else. Which of the leading presidential candidates would you most want to prevent from becoming president?"

It's not surprising Mrs. Clinton tops the list. She has always polled highest when voters are asked who they will not consider voting for next November, often approaching half of all voters.


www.washingtontimes.com

This truly needs to be said. Regardless of how many times the Clinton's infuse the canard of Obama's lack of experience into the mix, the more impressive his candidacy will become as the media actually deconstructs his past and starts publicizing the breadth and scope of his accomplishments. But there is still something which Obama has that Hillary never can, namely having lived his life in brown skin and having a different perspective due to this reality. Fareed Zakaria makes this case rather eloquently:

I never thought I'd be in this position. There's a debate taking place about what matters most when making judgments about foreign policy--experience and expertise on the one hand, or personal identity on the other. And I find myself coming down on the side of identity.

Hillary's case is obvious and perfectly defensible. She's been involved in foreign policy for eight years in the White House (though in a sideways fashion as First Lady) and then seven years as a senator. Most of the Democratic Party's blue-chip foreign-policy advisers support her. Plus, she has Bill.

Obama's argument is about more than identity. He was intelligent and prescient about the costs of the Iraq War. But he says that his judgment was formed by his experience as a boy with a Kenyan father--and later an Indonesian stepfather--who spent four years growing up in Indonesia, and who lived in the multicultural swirl of Hawaii.

I never thought I'd agree with Obama. I've spent my life acquiring formal expertise on foreign policy. I've got fancy degrees, have run research projects, taught in colleges and graduate schools, edited a foreign-affairs journal, advised politicians and businessmen, written columns and cover stories, and traveled hundreds of thousands of miles all over the world. I've never thought of my identity as any kind of qualification. I've never written an article that contains the phrase "As an Indian-American ..." or "As a person of color ..."

But when I think about what is truly distinctive about the way I look at the world, about the advantage that I may have over others in understanding foreign affairs, it is that I know what it means not to be an American. I know intimately the attraction, the repulsion, the hopes, the disappointments that the other 95 percent of humanity feels when thinking about this country. I know it because for a good part of my life, I wasn't an American. I was the outsider, growing up 8,000 miles away from the centers of power, being shaped by forces over which my country had no control.

This might sound like an argument about intangibles, but it's been embraced by hard-nosed businessmen. Fourteen CEOs of Fortune 100 companies are foreign-born, a number that has grown by leaps in the past decade. Some of these companies have explicitly said that they chose CEOs who could penetrate foreign cultures and markets. This understanding, mind you, comes not from extensive work experience in these countries. Executives like Vikram Pandit of Citigroup and Indra Nooyi of PepsiCo have spent most of their professional lives in the United States. But they have a powerful feel for the world beyond America.

We're moving into a very new world, one in which countries from Brazil to South Africa to India and China are getting richer, stronger and prouder. For America to thrive, we will have to develop a much deeper, richer, more intuitive understanding of them and their peoples. There are many ways to attain this, but certainly being able to feel it in your bones is one powerful way. Trust me on this. As a Ph.D. in international relations, I know what I'm talking about.


www.newsweek.com

I'm sorry TonyR...got distracted and ended up posting this before reading the whole thread.
YOU read WT....wow!

Lee Edwards could win IA, but I don't think he can garner the support he needs in NH, SC or NV. Now if Biden were to drop out of the race and join forces with Edwards, I could see Edwards gathering some real momentum. Also, I think when Biden drops out he backs Obama - just to end that false stigma that he is some sort of racist.

"Edwards/Biden '08"

Ralph Nader just told Chris Matthews he might not run and back Edwards if he gets the nomination.

Edwards/Biden '08

In my opinion, Edwards and Obama are almost running the same campaign except Obama rightly believes that bringing antagonists together to achieve change is better than trying to bludgeon them into acquiessence. Joe Biden is too valuable in the Senate and his experience and leadership there are irreplacable imo.

I hope you can see the energy and momemtum creating a wonderful synergy around Obama which has the capability of not only transfroming the White House but likely Congress as well. Personally I think the Democratic leadership should be shunned for lack of success and newer leaders chosen to replace the old guard. Once Obama, if he does, secures the nomination, going after the Democrats in Congress will be next on the agenda. We cannot stand the kind of feckless leadership we've seen this year, and if the "O-mentum" does bring a tsunami of change, what better time to clean house and start fresh than in 2009!

"I think the Democratic leadership should be shunned for lack of success"

Chris Dodd for Majority Leader! Just got an E-mail from him re: the FISA filibuster. The Senate got 506,000 calls and E-mails demanding the immunity clause be dropped from the bill. Nice work Chris!

Obama is my #2 choice. He's made some pretty bad mistakes (supporting coal to liquids being one of his worst), but unlike Clinton, he's not afraid to tell people the truth and he's not afraid to buck the system and piss people off.

His biggest problem is that he is too much of "meet in the middle" type of negotiator which is reflected in the legislation he has written in Congress which is very mediocre and ineffective.

That's fine for some things, not fine for other things. At least he has the potential to be great.

More news on the "Republicans for Obama" front:

I'm struck by the lack of animus among even very partisan Republicans toward Obama. There are many reasons for Republicans to oppose his candidacy - especially those who still believe that the war on terror can be won by more war and more occupation and more torture. But even those with principled objections are oddly lacking in loathing for him. David Brooks is not alone in seeing a certain temperamental strength in the guy, a cool-headedness under fire. I keep getting emails like this one:

"I was shocked by a phone conversation I had with my Dad last Friday evening. My Dad is a doctor who reads the Wall Street Journal every day and certainly falls much more into the small government rump wing of the Republican party. He has probably voted Republican in the last 5 or 6 presidential elections. In 2000 and 2004 I desperately tried to convince him to consider Gore and Kerry to no success. I was taking a more passive approach this time around. Completely unprompted, my father said that Obama was the only candidate worth getting excited about, and that all the others were a bunch of losers. Even more surprising, he seems to have finally detected the perversion of conservatism created by the Christianist wing (I recommended your book a while back). I think my Dad probably finds the prospect of a creationist president almost as horrifying as the prospect of Hillary as president.

Which to my mind is the crux of the Obama candidacy. Obama, it seems, is a bit like Reagan, in that he actually has the possibility of stealing all of those moderate republicans like my Dad to a democratic ticket. Now if the Democrats would just realize the huge opportunity they've got to destroy the republicans next fall.

Also, the latest spin from the Clinton campaign is truly shocking to me. The whole line about there not being any "surprises" with her. That she is tested. I can't think of anything further from the truth. I live in NYC, and we all know that Bill hasn't suddenly turned into a saint in the last 8 years. We all know that on any day some new rumor (or truth!) could surface about him. I think what I dread most about the prospect of another Clinton Presidency, beyond that it will do nothing to heal the rift in this country between red and blue, is that we'll have to relive their familial psychodrama. For me personally, none of that really matters, but we lived through this before with the media and the republicans. As a democrat, I honestly can't believe we want to go through it again."

Last, the latest sleaze coming out of the Clinton campaign re Obama being a muslim and using drugs.... It is truly revolting. People think she's a phony because she is a phony. I was neutral on her up until that point. Now I loathe her. She's shown her true colors again...much as I tried to repress the memory. I'd vote for McCain over her in a heartbeat.


andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com

Chris Dodd for Majority Leader!

If experience is all that matters, Dodd and Biden should be running away with it.

TR,

Can you name one thing that Obama has accomplished that impressed you?

"If experience is all that matters,"

I was referring more to results and how he managed to get the job done on the FISA/immunity thing this week.

Edwards said that the first day he is sworn in, he will submit legislation to the Congress that says that if they don't pass Universal health care by July 20th, then the President, the Congress and all appointees will lose their health care.

Know any other candidate who has the guts to do that?

This way, Members of Congress will get a chance to experience what 45 million Americans experience.

Lee...

No one is saying that Barack is the Second Coming, its just that no politician in our lifetime has energized and inspired people to CARE about making our government work the way it was invented to oh so long ago. He isn't perfect, nor should anyone expect him to be, but he's shown that his judgments far superior to those currently in charge as well as those supposedly keeping an eye on those in charge.

One of the main reasons his popularity continues to grow is that the truly sentient Americans are demanding that adults take control of our government instead of kleptocrats who undermine all that America has stood for. There aren't many times when Americans come together and coalesce around a movement and an ideal. We need to embrace the opportunity and run with it as far as we can. Who knows, it may be the last time in our lifetimes that the chance comes, and don't we owe it to our children to show them that hope is a far more powerful force of change than fear?

"Edwards said that the first day he is sworn in, he will submit legislation to the Congress that says that if they don't pass Universal health care by July 20th, then the President, the Congress and all appointees will lose their health care. "

And it'll die in committee. And Congress will still have it's health care.

Why elect a President who doesn't understand how government works?

"Edwards said that the first day he is sworn in, he will submit legislation to the Congress that says that if they don't pass Universal health care by July 20th, then the President, the Congress and all appointees will lose their health care."

I like John Edwards a lot, but that is a pretty hollow promise since, at best, it might make Congress look bad. (What else is new?) But the President has no authority to make that actually happen.

"Can you name one thing that Obama has accomplished that impressed you?"

Actually, according to Senate leadership, and a number of articles that have been written, Obama was key to getting through the "Strongest Ethics Legislation To Emerge From Congress Yet." (Washington Post, 1/20/07)

Can you name one thing that Obama has accomplished that impressed you?

Where do you want me to start! His championing of Illinois' version of S-CHIP which was passed in a majority Republican legislature giving thousands of children access to healthcare, and the Death Penalty reform which moved scores from Death Row who were wrongly convicted that earned him the backing and plaudits of the Illinois State Police and FOP.

Then his championing of ethics reform in the US Senate along with his legislation which now allows us online access to how our tax dollars are being spent are fairly impressive for a freshman Senator.
And there has been his quieter work with Senator Lugar on nuclear non-proliferation amongst the former Iron Curtain countries, who's sole purpose is to keep nuclear material out of the hands of rouge governments and terrorists. This is the same program that Bush has tried to gut of funding on numerous occassions even while warning about all the danger.

Perhaps though, his strongest accomplishment is having lived a full life, highlighting a continuing theme of serving the public at one level or another, bereft of chasing the riches his Harvard degree and pedigree most certainly were there for his taking. And after all of this, the only negative things people can find to say about him revolve around mostly things he had no control over. Does this help?

Obama has higher favorables.

Hillary has the highest unfavorables ever seen.

Obama has an added advantage because he won't be a senior citizen at the end of his first term the way Hillary would be if she won.

Face facts... The Babies aint got that much Boom left in 'em.

Time fer a new generation to take the helm.

Bottom line is Spud thinks Barack Obama is a good man who is aware of the enormous responsibility of the job before him.

Spud thinks he's trust-worthy.

Spud doesn't say that a lot about pols.

The GOPhers can only be trusted to lie.

(Spud makes an exception fer Ron Paul, of course)

Spud trusts Hill too.

Spud trusts Hill to continue the Free Trade Acts that Bill started and to continue the unfortunate trends toward increased privitisation and Big Box thinking. ie Politics as Usual.

Time fer the elctorate to unchain Barack Obama and let him loose on the ills that plague the country.

"Change, Nothing stays the same
www.youtube.com Hit the ground running"

Seniors don't even walk fast.

Barack will hit the ground and leave skid marks.

Obama '08.

Be Well.


Whoever the Dem nominee is will have almost the same negatives after nearly a year of SwiftBoating, especially since Obama is an unknown to most America and has plenty of material for the GOP to slander him with.

People who live by the poll (see: snapshot), often die by their misunderstanding of it.

Ok, now Corky wants us to ignore the polls and is pasting the same post on various threads.

Ok, now Corky wants us to ignore the polls and is pasting the same post on various threads.

Sorry for the double post.

Corky can we still be DR friends if Obama wins the dem nod?

Whoever the Dem nominee is will have almost the same negatives after nearly a year of SwiftBoating, especially since Obama is an unknown to most America and has plenty of material for the GOP to slander him with.

If he can't take it criticism from her, you know, like saying his name out loud, he'll never survive what the NeoGOP scum like yourself will do to him.



Funny Corky, but don't the Clinton's brag that they've got a better oppo research team than do the Republicans, hence their ability to stay ahead of them? So by deduction, the best dirt they can dig about Obama is his name, admitted teenage drug use and the discredited madrassa smears? Did it ever occur to you that there isn't any dirt in Obama's background because he hasn't been as underhanded, duplicitous or conniving as most politicians? You've been shown this before, and I'd hope you'd be able to refute it or desist in continuing a narrative you can't prove with a single salient fact proving it true or likely.


This whole idea of the Republican attack machine ready to go on Obama is completely FALSE. A dear friend of mine is a researcher at the RNC and he is told me many times that the opposite is true. They have an arsenal ready to go against Hillary, and next to nothing on Obama and Edwards. Ironically, this RNC staffer spent months on Obama oppo research and recently told me that if Obama were the Dem nominee, he would vote for him. Republicans know that they will get crushed by Obama or Edwards. They think they have a 50-50 shot with Hillary though.

www.politico.com



There doesnt have to be any dirt in his background to be SwiftBoated on everything from his name to his religion, to his liberal policy, to his 2 years in the Senate, to his non-universal health care plan, to his use of PAC money.

They will blow everything about him out of proportion and cast it in a negative light.

Americans already know all the old stuff about Clinton and would be too bored with that for the GOP to use it again.

Obama, however, is fresh meat for the Repube grill.

Her negatives are already factored in, his are just beginning.


And what truly is sickening is the fact that the Clinton's have provably gone even where Rovian Republicans wouldn't tread in there unquenchable thirst for power:

While endorsing Hillary Clinton for President, former Senator Bob Kerrey spoke of how ground-breaking it is that we Democrats have a candidate named "Barack Hussein Obama."

His defenders say that he included Obama's unused middle name to convey just how great it is. Imagine. A President with Hussein in his name. Are we great or what?

Here's what I think. It was an intentional effort to remind Iowans and New Hampsherites that Obama is not really "one of us."

Think about it. All he had to do was to say how cool it is that we have a candidate like Barack Obama, who is African-American, grew up in Indonesia, whatever.

In fact, all he had to say was how cool it is that Barack Obama is a major candidate for President.

After all, the whole world knows that he is black.

But why use a middle name Obama never uses. A middle name that appears only a right-wing websites as a slur.

You know what Joe Lieberman's middle name is? It's Isador, a stereotypical old-fashioned Jewish name.

Imagine if Bush or Cheney had said how great it was that in our country in 2000 we could have a Vice President named JOSEPH ISADOR LIEBERMAN. Democrats would have gone nuts.

But the Republicans never went that route. Not even close. But Kerrey just did.

So this is the anti-Obama game plan. We Democrats talk about how disgusting the Republicans are.

We say that they are so loathsome that they will will even use Obama's name, his admitted youthful drug use, his Muslim father, etc, against him.

The Republicans, we will say, will stop at nothing -- while we, of course, stop at nothing to smear our own guy
.

Or we'll say ain't it grand that Barack Obama is Barack Hussein Obama and that his grandma is a Muslim in Africa!

All of a sudden, the race tightens and suddenly Obama's race is an issue. Who woulda thunk it? I guess America has not gotten as far as I thought it had.

www.tpmcafe.com

Its disgusting, and it has no place in the Democratic Party or America for that matter. Its gutter politics pure and simple and look who went there....

People who live by the poll (see: snapshot), often die by their misunderstanding of it.

Corky,

Mark Penn is both her pollster and her chief policy adviser. This is a very telling indicator. It is saying that she is a follower of public opinion, rather than a leader. Do you think Bush takes public opinion polls before he decides his positions?

Of course not. He makes decisions based on his judgment as to what is best for America (too bad he has incredibly poor judgment). You cannot be a follower of public opinion and do what is best for America.

Corky...

If you can't see where the Clinton's are openly trying to splinter the nascient Democrat/progressive/fed-up conservative coalition then you need new glasses!

As quickly as Obama is trying to expand the base of the party the Clintons are trying to undermine the efforts with overt entreaties to the latent and not-so-latent racism still swaying hold on America. The ultimate end of this is the loss of black American support while Willie impugns one of the most impressively credentialed politicians ever to have brown skin. I can't wait until the media actually reports the breadth and depth of Obama's "experience" and people see him for what he's always been: a person able to bring different groups together for the benefit of everyone, to the overall detriment of polarized politics, while getting things done, not just thrown to a "committee" for studying.


lmfao!

Obama is so untouchable, people aren't even allowed to compliment him by name or say how fine it would be to have a President with a Muslim heritage as Kerry did!

I guess we can add former good guy American and Dem Bob Kerry to the list of people who are suddenly NeoCon whores for supporting Clinton or speaking truth to the PC Police.

btw- Richard Holbrook is another one, eh?

www.drudge.com

- Do you think Bush takes public opinion polls before he decides his positions?

Of course he does.

He just more often agrees with his base, the have and have more oils, than not.

People who depend upon caricatures created of politicians by the media for their information are always last in line.


-not just thrown to a "committee" for studying.

You musta missed Edwards the other day slamming Obama for wanting to "thrown to a "committee" for studying", the issue of political reform.

Funny that.

No Corky, we expect that someone wishing to be POTUS would at least have the integrity of not doing what they've spent the last 20 years accusing Republicans of doing to them. What's Hillary's middle name, btw? I bet you don't even know, which makes my point exactly. Who'd have thought the most dispicable, devious character assassins resided in the Democratic Party after all?

Yeah, Kerry was paying a compliment to Obama by saying what he said. I guess a madrassa is just another name for the school on the corner then, right? The word only means ONE THING: a muslim religious school, when the fact is Obama went to a PUBLIC SCHOOL in Indonesia, not a madrassa!


That Neocon Whore Kerry!

Hang the Bastard!


Oh, btw-

Dropping Oppo


Circulating among Iowa labor circles, I am told, is this leaflet, which looks to be a standard opposition-research paper against former Sen. John Edwards, D-NC.

The shocker? It's from Mr. Positive, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois.

blogs.abcnews.com

Glass houses/stones?

Corky...

You're nothing more than a broken record! The paper was put together by a request from a single union in Iowa and only given to them!

Ooooooooh, some campaigns tell the truth while some make up their own. Bubba caught in another "mischaracterization" on the campaign trail!

Former President George H.W. Bush has shot down his successor Bill Clinton's idea of a diplomatic mission under a Hillary Clinton presidency that would send him and other notables abroad to assure other nations that "America is open for business and cooperation again."...

In a statement sent to CNN Tuesday afternoon, former President Bush's chief of staff Jean Becker said that he "wholeheartedly supports the President of the United States, including his foreign policy. He has never discussed an around-the-world-mission' with either former President Bill Clinton or Sen. Clinton, nor does he think such a mission is warranted since he is proud of the role America continues to play around the world as the beacon of hope for freedom and democracy."
tpmelectioncentral.com

Seems Clinton needs to stop trying to speak for anyone but himself.

Corky, you're proving my point, you can't find anything relevant to criticize Obama for that isn't already out there, can you?



You mean like his non-universal health care plan and his PAC money and his bad land deals?

Yeah, there's always more.

How 'bout this?

Obama Called Out Ted Kennedy: "You're Getting A Little Old...Get Some Spine"

www.huffingtonpost.com

The "uniter" Obama disses Kennedy for doing what he claims he will do..... play well with others.


But hero worshippers always have excuses for their heroes.

I just wouldn't stand too close to that pedestal you have Obama on, as he will likely fall off.


Switchers

www.youtube.com


NBA legend Earvin "Magic" Johnson, joined the former First Couple on the trail at a Hy-Vee grocery store Tuesday morning in front of a mostly black crowd of about 40 people, many of whom were high school and junior high school basketball players, school principals an their relatives. Magic went around the room high-fiving the spectators, while the Clintons signed autographs.

When asked why he supported the New York senator over Obama, Magic cited her years of experience. "I love the Clintons, and I just know Sen. Clinton is the best candidate to move our country forward," he said during a brief, hastilty arranged press conference.

A cheerful Mrs. Clinton -- who pretended to do a jump shot as she entered the store -- spoke only briefly, joking with a reporter who asked about her apparent good mood Monday by saying, "You mean I got my groove back?"


firstread.msnbc.msn.com

The desparation is showing Corky! Bringing up something said during the heat of battle THREE YEARS AGO as a negative today?

(B)ack when he was an Illinois State Senator in 2003, Obama himself was thirsting for a fight. And when it came to a prescription drug bill being considered by Congress, he was willing to call out even Sen. Ted Kennedy, the liberal lion, for not showing enough political backbone.

"We've got to call up not just Republicans," said the Illinois Democrat, "but we got to call up Ted Kennedy and say, Ted, you're getting a little old now, and you've been a fighter for us before I don't know what's happening now, Ted get some spine and stand up to the Republicans."


www.huffingtonpost.com

Yeah, I forgot how popular Bush's $750 BILLION sop to Big Pharma is in Democratic/liberal circles Corky....ROFLMBAO!!!!!

Keep digging, I'm sure there's still something more prutrid for you Clintonites to dig up while you're rummaging through the shitpile. Just take a bath before you come back, will ya?

The fact of the matter is Obama was behind Illinois legislation that allows its citizens(state) to negotiate prices directly from drug companies, unlike the plan passed by Hillary and Kennedy.

But I keep forgetting, Obama doesn't have any experience in getting things done like Hillary does....LOL!!!!

-Bringing up something said during the heat of battle THREE YEARS AGO as a negative today?


Did I mention making excuses?
Yeah, I thought I did.

-while you're rummaging through the shitpile. Just take a bath before you come back, will ya?

The ad hominem is strong in this one.

The intelligent retort?

Not so much.


Well, if you have five seconds, we could thoroughly discuss Obama's foreign policy experience.

And still have time for a sandwich. And dessert.

But, speaking of polls, here is realclear today


RCP Average

Clinton 42.6%

Obama 26.1%

Edwards 13.0%

Richardson3.0%

Biden3.3%

Clinton +16.5%

Well, if you have five seconds, we could thoroughly discuss Obama's foreign policy experience.

Well at least we know it stems from more than who he was sleeping with, not on how quickly Willie finishes!

Obama Discusses New Judgment Needed To Change Our Foreign Policy At Iowa Forum
December 18, 2007

Des Moines, IA -- Senator Barack Obama today hosted a foreign policy forum in Des Moines, along with top advisors, to discuss the kind of judgment necessary to bring about a change in our foreign policy that we can believe in. Obama and the panelists took questions from Iowa voters and discussed Obama's specific plans to end the war in Iraq, renew American diplomacy, pursue aggressive diplomacy with Iran, fight terrorism and extremism, reduce the threat of nuclear weapons, and invest in a 21st century military. The forum is part of Obama's commitment to being open with the American people, and making them a part of the dialogue about their foreign policy.

The following local and national foreign policy experts joined Senator Obama at the forum:

* Tony Lake - National Security Advisor to President Clinton

* Susan Rice - Former Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs

* General Scott Gration - Former Major General, United States Air Force

* Sen. Steve Warnstadt - Iowa State Senator; Vice-Chair, Veterans Affairs Committee

* Denis McDonough - Former Senior Foreign Policy Advisor, Majority Leader Tom Daschle

Barack Obama is the only major candidate to oppose the Iraq war from the beginning and previously outlined a comprehensive plan to responsibly end the war in Iraq in a September 12th speech in Clinton, IA. As a U.S. Senator, Obama has spent the last three years serving on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, where he has worked across the aisle to keep the world's most dangerous weapons away from terrorists, and on the Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee, where he has fought to give America's veterans the care, benefits and respect they have earned.

You can learn more about Obama's judgment and vision for a new American foreign policy:
www.barackobama.com

thinkonthesethings.wordpress.c
om


I couldn't ask for a better set-up man if Central Casting created one!

"The word only means ONE THING: a muslim religious school,"

Actually Tony, one small correction. The word madrassa is simply the Arabic word for "school". There can be both religious madrassas and secular madrassas.

However, that being said, the connotation that word has with most Americans is Islamic fundamental religious school. The Clinton campaign is well aware of that fact, I'm sure.

Thanks SanAntonio... for the correction. Speaking of Obama and foreign policy, here's just a few things he's been involved with in his short US Senate tenure so far:

In 2005, Senator Obama traveled to the former Soviet Union with Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN) to investigate the dangers posed by unsecured weapons. The two senators returned from the trip and introduced legislation to establish the next generation of the Nunn-Lugar initiative. Senator Obama helped shepherd this legislation through Congress and it was signed into law in January 2007. The Lugar-Obama initiative cracks down on conventional weapon caches by building on the Nunn-Lugar program, which has secured nearly 7,000 Soviet nuclear warheads, in order to find and destroy conventional arms.

What's Hillary done in her seven years?

Senator Obama passed legislation with Senator Lugar to prevent weapons of mass destruction from being smuggled across the globe. Signed into law in January 2007, the Lugar-Obama initiative will help other nations detect and secure weapons of mass destruction before they ever leave their borders. Senator Obama also worked with Senator Lugar to successfully restore $8 million in budget cuts to the original Nunn-Lugar Initiative.

An estimated 3.9 million people have died from war-related causes since the conflict in the Democratic Republic of the Congo began. Nearly 80 percent of Congo's 56 million people live in extreme poverty and more than 70 percent are undernourished. The United Nations has its largest peacekeeping force in the world in the Congo, and in the summer of 2006, the country held competitive national elections for the first time in more than 40 years.

Senator Obama wrote and passed legislation to build on this historic election and promote stability in the country. Senator Obama revamped U.S. policy in the Congo to include a commitment to help rebuild the country, develop lasting political structures, hold accountable destabilizing foreign governments, crack down on corrupt politicians, and professionalize the military. The bill also authorizes $52 million in U.S. assistance for the Congo, calls for a Special U.S. Envoy to resolve ongoing violence, and urges the administration to strengthen the U.N. peacekeeping force.

Senator Obama has been a leading voice in Washington urging the end of genocide in Sudan. He worked with Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS) on the Darfur Peace and Accountability Act, a version of which was signed into law. Senator Obama has traveled to the United Nations to meet with Sudanese officials and visited refugee camps on the Chad-Sudan border to raise international awareness of the ongoing humanitarian disaster there. He also worked with Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) to secure $20 million for the African Union peacekeeping mission.

On July 19, 2005, Senator Obama passed a bipartisan amendment, along with Senators Chuck Hagel (R-NE), Patrick Leahy (D-VT), and Judd Gregg (R-NH) to provide $13 million for the Special Court for Sierra Leone. Signed into law in November 2005, the Obama amendment provides critical funding to keep the Court up and running and dramatically enhances efforts to bring Charles Taylor to justice. Taylor was arrested in 2006 and awaits trial in April 2007.


If anyone truly wants to know the things Barack Obama wants to do as President should actually read his proposals instead of parroting the empty talking points of his detractors:
www.barackobama.com

Obama's entire career has been in the trenches working to uplift average Americans. His dedication to public service has built a record for him of someone who's walked in many other people's shoes. As a $13,000 a year community action agency employee (with his fresh Ivy League education) he worked not to enrich himself, but to help others enrich their lives. Then used his Harvard Law School degree to be a low paid advocate for our civil rights.

When was the last time we had a presidential candidate who actually knows what it's like from personal experience working with real people on behalf of a community that lost steel plants and plunged into poverty? Someone who spent many years working for little pay because of his passion for enriching the lives of all people?

His diverse background offers an opportunity for America to elect a man who is truly an everyman. As I believe Andrew Sullivan said, Obama offers a different look to the Muslim world. Although he's a Christian who truly answered Christ's call to help his fellow man, Muslims can say, "He may not be one of us, but he understands us".

Obama is the perfect man for America's future. One who can indeed lead us into the future with hope and inspiration steering America to a better future for a New Generation.

Once neutral, filmmaker Ken Burns picks Obama

Manchester, N.H. New Hampshire resident and famed filmmaker Ken Burns said today that he is throwing his support behind Sen. Barack Obama for president, complaining that "recent events" and the negative tone of the campaign compelled him to come forward.

Burns, who lives in Walpole, said he had originally planned to stay neutral because there were things he liked about all the Democratic candidates for president.

When asked what specifically prompted him to come forward, Burns said, "Those recent events are pretty obvious."

Last week, Sen. Hillary Clinton's state co-chairman resigned his position after saying that Obama's acknowledged use of drugs as a young man would prevent him from getting elected president because of likely Republican attacks.

"I'm really just disappointed in the tone this campaign has taken on their part," Burns said, referring to Clinton. "I think she's getting some bad advice."

Burns recently produced "The War," an examination of World War II that took him seven years to make. He's also well known for his documentary about baseball, as well as historical sagas about the West, Thomas Jefferson, Frank Lloyd Wright, and suffragists Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony.

Burns said he liked Obama right off the bat and felt he could stamp out society's "creeping cynicism" with his "unironic posture."

"I have been attracted from the beginning to his authenticity," he said. With the country facing difficult times, he said, the nation needs "someone able to dream and suggest a future without being tied to the past."

He also said he appreciated Obama's stand against the war when other candidates supported it.

"I think this is a human being who knew in advance how unnecessary and foolish this war was," Burns said, adding that Obama knows how to distinguish between "fraudulent wars," and "those that really need to be fought."

As a state senator, Obama spoke out against the invasion of Iraq, while Clinton voted for the use of force resolution.

"His record is utterly clear and unassailable on this point," said Burns.

www.swamppolitics.com

No matter who the Democrat's elect the Republicans are going to be all over him/her. Does anyone think for one minute Obama is going to have an easier time then Clinton. I heard the argument that Clinton will bring out the Republicans but I think no matter who the Dem's nominate the Republicans will attack. There is no way they are going to lose the House the Senate and the White House. If you think Obama has a better chance then Hillary you should vote for him but I don't think it is going to matter one way or another

There doesnt have to be any dirt in his background to be SwiftBoated on everything from his name to his religion, to his liberal policy, to his 2 years in the Senate, to his non-universal health care plan, to his use of PAC money.

They will blow everything about him out of proportion and cast it in a negative light.

Americans already know all the old stuff about Clinton and would be too bored with that for the GOP to use it again.

Obama, however, is fresh meat for the Repube grill.

Her negatives are already factored in, his are just beginning.




Posted by Corky at 2007-12-18 03:42 PM | Reply |

And he probably likes white women too, OUR white women!!


No matter who the Democrat's elect the Republicans are going to be all over him/her. Does anyone think for one minute Obama is going to have an easier time then Clinton. I heard the argument that Clinton will bring out the Republicans but I think no matter who the Dem's nominate the Republicans will attack. There is no way they are going to lose the House the Senate and the White House. If you think Obama has a better chance then Hillary you should vote for him but I don't think it is going to matter one way or another

Posted by stuart46 at 2007-12-18 07:08 PM | Reply |

I think Obama will have an easier time, although it won't be because the Republicans didn't try.

I think if we don't get the opportunity to vote for the candidate of our choice, you'll see a few mod repubs vote for Obama. He seems clean, untainted by the current congress.

Her negatives are already factored in, his are just beginning.

Posted by Corky at 2007-12-18 03:42 PM |

Look at Hillary's dyke aide and lover, Huma Abedin. The bitch is a Muslim too. Her Daddy is a Wahabi religious nut. she goes everywhere with Hillary. This comprimises the security of our nation.

Sincerely,

The Republican Campaign Machine.

p.s. you ain't seen nuthin' yet if she gets the nod.

I cringe at the thought of the next Clinton scandal. (And I do like Bill, always have).

Obama '08

Why isn't Ron Paul in this poll?
What are they afraid of?

Strike my last comment.........

Obama is my #2 choice. He's made some pretty bad mistakes (supporting coal to liquids being one of his worst)

How is coal to liquids a bad mistake? Maybe to clueless environmentalists...

We can't run the country on wind and solar alone. Oil is bankrupting us, funding terrorists and running out. Bio fuels have been declared a crime against humanity by the UN, hydro's tapped out and killing salmon, the environmental whackos won't let us build nuclear plants, and nobody will fund fusion.

Our options are growing slim, what exactly do you suggest? We have a lot of coal, and it's better than buying oil from the Saudis.

I don't think it's a mistake at all. I think it's the real world pragmatic leadership Obama's done his entire career. We need energy, it's gotta come from somewhere.

When the anti-global warming crowd pull their heads out of their asses and back nuclear we can put coal to bed. Until then, coal to liquids is an imperfect solution to a messy problem that nobody wants to compromise on.

What, you want the candidate who tells you the American economy can run on butterfly wings and rainbows?

No, no, no.......WhineCork(tm) don't slash your wrist.......it would take away our entertainment of watching you squirm.

-I couldn't ask for a better set-up man if Central Casting created one!

Round and round and down the toilet goes the oft used argument that the people and the policies of the Clinton admin are somehow outdated and no longer relevant to today's problems, lmfao!!

Hey look! It's the corky and tony show.

How droll.


-p.s. you ain't seen nuthin' yet if she gets the nod.


You are out of your league, Johnny Rotten.

www.observer.com


Droll trolls.

Gotta love 'em.

The public still has no idea of what part of her is stage-managed and focus-grouped, and what part is legit. It's pretty pathetic, at this stage of her career, that she has to wage a major offensive, by helicopter and Web testimonials, to make herself appear warm-blooded. -Maureen Dowd

One of the benefits of this campaign has been to remind all of us what a shameless opportunist the former president is:

"Clinton was 42 in 1988, four years younger than Obama is now. Already one of the nation's longest serving governors, Clinton accomplished little between 1988 and 1992 that added to his depth of experience -- other than winning a fifth term as Arkansas governor while promising not to seek the presidency before his term expired."

He ran against one of the most experienced incumbent president of the century: a two-term veep, former head of the CIA and incumbent president who presided masterfully over the end of the Cold War. And he says Obama is no match for a former First Lady? If Democrats buy this transparent b.s., they'll deserve the candidate they nominate.


andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com


By Bill Clinton's logic in 2008, we never would have had a Clinton presidency in 1992. Its sad watching Bill trying to undermine Hillary's candidacy by injecting his overshadowing visage above her own. If you didn't catch Bill wander away from Hillary in the grocery store in Iowa yesterday, along with the look of absolute dread when Hillary realized he was freelancing with reporters against the wishes of Hillary's press handler, find it on YouTube. Its truly priceless in a Master Card sort of way.


Wow, TR

You really wrecked the premise of my retort to all the former Clintonistas in the Obama camp.

Notably the ones who weren't hired by Hillary, btw.



Also, have you trashed Richard Holbrook yet as a NeoCon whore for supporting Clinton?

Corky...

No one is trashing anyone. All we're doing is commenting on things being done by the candidate and her supporters. I keep forgetting that the Clintons can't stand it when they're unable to control the narrative and actually have to be accountable for what they say and do.

Makes it harder to try and be on all sides of an issue. An Iowa voter makes a compelling case on why Obama is now, and Clinton is so 90s:

Senator Clinton is not the kind of leader that this crucial time demands. While she is a very smart politician, I believe that almost all of her policy positions and actions are based on pragmatism. She holds her finger to the wind to ascertain from which way the winds of public opinion are blowing at the time, and then chooses her course of action to ride that breeze. Her listening to constituents seems superficial, because she uses those responses to further her personal political goals.

Senator Clinton?s stance on the War in Iraq is a perfect example. Yes, she voted to support President Bush in 2002, and now claims that she did so based on the evidence at the time. I believe that she was following the maddening crowd. There were politicians who saw the same evidence, did their research, and followed their conscience ? against public opinion, and the largely complicit press. Now, in retrospect, she is walking a fine line. If she admits that she was wrong, she may look too much like a woman who can?t make up her mind. But the prevailing winds are certainly against the war, so she continually finds ways to exonerate her 2002 vote. Senator Clinton now roundly criticizes the Bush administration, and proposes new legislation to end the war. It appears that she continues to choose her stance based on how to best get votes for herself.

Hillary Clinton is a polarizing person. Yes, some women may support her candidacy because she is an articulate, smart woman with significant power, but I urge you to look at the larger picture. Among many Republicans she is despised. That feeling is visceral ? and cannot be discounted. Many Republicans are seriously considering voting for a Democratic candidate for president, but these same Republicans are less willing to vote for Senator Clinton than the other leading Democrats. While Bill Clinton may be popular among many Democrats, the thought of him as an integral part of a Hillary Clinton administration will be enough cause for many Republicans to vote against her rather than for the policies of the Democratic Party.

I have made my choice. I am eager for a woman president. I admire Hillary Clinton?s perseverance, but it is Barack Obama who inspires me. His poetic oratory speaks to my hunger for positive leadership. His life story and where it has led him make me believe that he is the person who can best lead this country in an increasingly complex and flat world. His ability to draw large and diverse crowds which include increasing numbers of young people help inform my belief that he is the leader of the future. His courage and foresight to speak against the War in Iraq when it was not popular speaks volumes to me about his integrity, temperament, intellect, courage, and wisdom. His candidacy is a groundswell from the bottom up - rather than from the establishment down. It is Barack Obama who speaks to our better angels, and who can effectively face the diverse challenges of our contemporary world. He is the right person for this time.


desmoinesregister.com

Match-ups

Clinton-Giuliani +1
Obama-Giuliani +6


Clinton-Huckabee +9
Obama-Huckabee +11


Clinton-Romney +6
Obama-Romney +18

Favorable-unfavorable

Clinton 51/48 (+3)
Edwards 53/33 (+20)
Obama 57/30 (+27)
Giuliani 50/4` (+9)
Huckabee 34/24 (+10)
Romney 32/35 (-3)
McCain 54/30 (+14)
Thompson 30/34 (-4)

And guess which Democratic candidate holds the edge among Democratic primary voters in perceived "electability"?

www.samefacts.com

You are out of your league, Johnny Rotten.

Ahh Corky I got your attention and the desired effect then. good. Had you not been so quick to judge, you'd have seen that I was just pointing out that all of the skeletons in Hillary's closet are not in the open. And let me say that while totally untrue, the rethugs will spin this so the average Joe and Jane Blow will be led to believe there's more to that then meets the eye. I like Senator Clinton -- she's got moxie and has done well for herself. And I don't give a damn about Ms. Abedin. but to say that Obama can't get the nod because of all the unknown dirt on him is just silly. Good luck with your candidate and have fun campaigning for her. And by the way, I know who John Lydon is and I am no John Lydon.

-to say that Obama can't get the nod because of all the unknown dirt on him is just silly.

Having never said that I can easily agree it is silly.

I have said that the electorate that voted in GW, twice, isn't all that likely to vote in a very liberal 1-2 year Senator with no foreign policy experience.

All the other stuff about him will just be icing on their SwiftBoat cake.

I have said that the electorate that voted in GW, twice, isn't all that likely to vote in a very liberal 1-2 year Senator with no foreign policy experience.

What do you consider relevant foreign policy experience Corky? Do the things listed at 5.51pm yesterday not undercut your repeated lies of him having none when he's accomplished more in his 2+ years than Hillary has in 7+ as it regards actually being engaged in affecting US policy abroad?

And even more importantly, tell us which heated campaigns Hillary's current staff has navigated her through in 2000 and 2006. She's never been "battle-tested" at all! Both her Senate wins were veritable walkovers, not spirited campaigns against worthy opponents. This is just more of her "mile-wide/inch deep" claims of having done what she hasn't, namely beaten anyone at anything on her own with her current entourage.

-your repeated lies

You have turned into quite the asshole, eh?


Clinton is known world-wide for standing up to powerful dictators in children's, women's, and human rights issues for 8 years as a First Lady and adviser to the President.

She has 3X as much experience as Obama in the Senate, and has accomplished more and earned more respect in her time on the Armed Services Committee.

She has also recently authored important legislation with former Clinton impeacher Sen Lindsey Graham.

Obama said he "didn't know" how he would have voted on the Iraq war the first time he was asked, and no amount of convoluted excuse making will change that.

Even the GOP stronghold of upstate NY was sufficiently impressed with her hard work in the Sen to help make her second election a landslide.


As per usual, you can list NOTHING that she's actually accomplished unlike the detailed work of Obama and the legislative success he's helped achieve. I will continue to call you a liar whenever you LIE, because the list of pablum you're selling means nothing.

What has Hillary ACHIEVED substantively when "standing up" for the various causes you've listed above? C'mon, it shouldn't be hard if you've truly moved LEGISLATION through the Senate that has positively impacted those you mention above, should it?

Its sad that you insist on parroting the same dubious ethics and hyperbole which obscures the fact that Hillary has done little but garner facetime at hearings while Obama has actually shepherded legislation which changed the status quo. It also shows an abject disengenuity when you continue to claim that giving speeches and having meetings are substantive foreign policy experiences when compared to securing nuclear materiel from those wishing to commit terrorism and in bringing US power to bear against tyrants for the sake of abused Africans.

And what about your "battle-tested" canard? Care to step out on a limb with that one again? What battle has Hillary fought herself, against all odds, which proves her capable of success against REAL competition?

It just highlights the differences Corky, as plain as they can be. Hillary sits in Washington or jets off for 5-star treatment as the former First Lady, while Obama travels to hellholes and interacts with the real concerns of people, then returns and acts upon what he's seen without grandstanding on CSPAN as if that gives him needed gravitas.

Apparently not everyone at the Des Moines Register thinks Hillary should have gotten the endorsement:

www.desmoinesregister.com

Obama can heal divisions, win hearts and minds

I remember wishing Hillary Clinton would run. Not last January, when she announced, but before the 2004 election, when someone with her intellectual heft and stature was needed to stand up to the Bush/Rove/ Rumsfeld cabal and dismantle its agenda.

But Clinton didn't run then, and when she jumped into this year's race, days after Barack Obama, it was a different field and a different moment.

This moment belongs to Obama.

The White House is virtually imploding after four more years of bungling the war, the economy and domestic crises such as Hurricane Katrina. With the president's poll numbers in the 20s and Rove, Rumsfeld and Ashcroft on the run, this is the moment for a fresh start.

This newspaper has endorsed Clinton on the Democratic side. I respect its decision. But after sitting through most of the same candidate meetings, watching, reading, listening and searching my conscience, I've concluded Obama is the one who can best pull off what needs to happen.

Clinton is smart, hard-working, gutsy and tough enough to absorb all the muck that's come her way. But Obama is simply a better candidate. He's that rarest of leaders, combining roots in white Midwestern America with black Africa, and experience both organizing in barrios and editing the Harvard Law Review. He's got idealism, compassion and intellect. And he lacks the baggage Clinton comes with, including all the controversies that swirled around her husband's White House. Nor is he compromised, as she has been, by the Senate vote that got us into this quagmire in Iraq.

Clinton is likable - and polarizing. But Obama is a uniter whose very life experience promises a new chapter for America. ...

... What's needed is a candidate who represents this new America, and inspires pride in it as it grows more multicultural by the day, and as our fate becomes more linked to the rest of the world's, whether through trade, terrorism, immigration or global warming.

We can either embrace it or wrap ourselves in the fear and xenophobia some in the GOP are preaching.

Now is also the time to signal the world that America is not a monolithic dinosaur but dynamic and evolving, harnessing its diversity to enhance its strength. Obama could do that.

Clinton is known world-wide for standing up to powerful dictators in children's, women's, and human rights issues for 8 years as a First Lady and adviser to the President.
Posted by Corky

This must be proven in in those unreleased National Archives docs, eh Cork?

"Clinton is known world-wide for standing up to powerful dictators in children's, women's, and human rights issues"

In all fairness, she did make a pretty powerful speech in China in 1995.

It is a violation of human rights when babies are denied food, or drowned, or suffocated, or their spines broken, simply because they are born girls.

It is a violation of human rights when women and girls are sold into the slavery of prostitution.

It is a violation of human rights when women are doused with gasoline, set on fire and burned to death because their marriage dowries are deemed too small.

It is a violation of human rights when individual women are raped in their own communities and when thousands of women are subjected to rape as a tactic or prize of war.

It is a violation of human rights when a leading cause of death worldwide among women ages 14 to 44 is the violence they are subjected to in their own homes by their own relatives.

It is a violation of human rights when young girls are brutalized by the painful and degrading practice of genital mutilation.

It is a violation of human rights when women are denied the right to plan their own families, and that includes being forced to have abortions or being sterilized against their will.


"Anyone who doubts Hillary Clinton's impact on the world stage might want to check with the top political leaders in Northern Ireland, who cite her work to end sectarian violence there and help secure a lasting peace.

Anyone who doubts Hillary Clinton's international experience might consult with democracy activists in the Slovak Republic, who remember when she stood in solidarity with them and publicly challenged their new government's suppression of civil society.

They might talk to women - from the Philippines to Latin America to the Middle East - who can vote, own property, or go to school, because Hillary Clinton helped start a global women's movement for women's rights.

Or they might travel to Africa and Asia, where Hillary Clinton visited countless remote villages to show how the poorest of the poor could become entrepreneurial and self-sufficient when given access to small loans.

In the heat of presidential campaign politics, candidates on both sides dismiss a First Lady's work as insignificant to foreign policy. But in Hillary Clinton's case, such a presumption is not only wrong, it trivializes the important global issues of human rights, democracy, and international development that are so central to strengthening American values and influence overseas and are hallmarks of her exhaustive work around the world.

As First Lady and now as a two-term senator who represents the most ethnically diverse state in the nation and who sits on the Armed Services Committee, Hillary Clinton has become a fixture on international issues over the past 15 years. She has traveled to more than 80 countries, going from barrios to rural villages to meetings with heads of state. She has consulted with dozens of world leaders - Nelson Mandela, King Abdullah, Tony Blair among them -- on matters as diverse as America and NATO's roles in Kosovo, eradicating poverty in the Third World, and the plight of women living under the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Today, she is one of the most influential voices in the world on human rights, democracy, and the promotion of a "new internationalism" in foreign affairs that calls for a balanced use of military force, diplomacy, and social development to strengthen American interests and security globally.

Whether working to support civil society in Russia, pushing for programs to combat the spread of AIDS in Africa, or flying into war-torn Bosnia to nurture a new peace agreement, she has carried the message and face of American democracy to some of the most challenging regions of the globe.

Her historic speech at the UN Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing in 1995 not only galvanized women around the world, it helped spawn a movement that led to advances politically, legally, economically, and socially for women in many countries over the next decade.

Among other initiatives, she spearheaded the Clinton Administration's efforts to combat the global crisis of human trafficking. She persuaded the First Ladies of the Americas to use their collective power to eradicate measles and improve girls' education throughout the western Hemisphere. And she is widely credited with helping women in Kuwait finally win the right to vote.

Hillary Clinton understood early on that America could not export democracy and freedom without also winning the hearts and minds of people on society's margins and seeding American values from the ground up. (One need only look at the rise of Islamic extremism in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and elsewhere to appreciate the importance of that insight). To that end, she became one of the world's leading advocates for development programs like microfinance to create self-sufficiency among the world's poor; for education efforts to lift successive generations out of poverty and ignorance; for cost-effective health care programs to rid the world of deadly diseases that plague entire continents and stall social and economic progress.

She also knew that America had a unique role in the world as a beacon of freedom - and pluralism. She promoted religious tolerance from Morocco to Pakistan and convened the leaders of the world's major religions in Istanbul to discuss ways to fight religious extremism; she supported Protestant and Catholic women working on peace at the grass roots in northern Ireland; she challenged repressive heads of state in central Europe and central Asia who trampled on newly won democratic rights in their countries.

And with Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright, she helped launch the Vital Voices Democracy Initiative, in which the United States trained women in the new democracies to become leaders in all sectors of their societies.

While American First Ladies historically have made great (and often overlooked) contributions to our nation, Hillary Clinton's wide-ranging experience on international issues as First Lady is unprecedented. Indeed, she is the only First Lady to have delivered foreign policy addresses at major gatherings of the United Nations, the World Bank, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the World Economic Forum.

Over the past seven years, she has amplified her experience through her work in the Senate on military and national security issues, leading efforts to combat nuclear proliferation, end the genocide in Darfur, and ensure that American troops are properly equipped when they go to war and properly cared for when they return home.

The world knows Hillary Clinton. Moreover, the world respects her.

www.huffingtonpost.com


And I won't even call you a liar, TR.

Just wrong.

A quote I gave a journalist almost two years ago has been recycled, out of context, to suggest that Senator Clinton and I would contemplate going to war with Iran or other nations. This is, of course, a complete misrepresentation of what I was saying and of Senator Clinton's longstanding views. What I said was clear:

first, Hillary Clinton has far more foreign policy experience than her husband did at a comparable point in his presidential campaign in 1991-92; and second, she knows how best to advance America's foreign policy goals around the world at time when America faces unprecedented challenges after seven years of the Bush administration's disastrous policies.

Senator Clinton has traveled to more than 80 countries, building relationships that will enable her to begin to restore America's global standing, beginning on Day 1 of her Presidency. Senator Clinton is a passionate believer in diplomacy, negotiations, and the value of, well, American values.

She would outlaw torture and close Guantanamo. She would make us proud again of our leadership role in the world. I know from extensive personal observation that she would be a superb negotiator and diplomat. Hillary would strengthen the U.N. and make it more effective, after the Bush Administration weakened it.

Of course, there are times like in Bosnia and Rwanda, when a president must be willing to act. President Clinton should have acted earlier in those cases, as he himself has acknowledged. My point was that, having observed these tragedies closely in the 1990s and learned more as a Senator, Hillary Clinton knows how to mix diplomacy and power. She has made clear repeatedly that she believes strongly in diplomacy and that the Bush administration's failure to emphasize it has been terrible for our nation. She has called for direct talks with our adversaries, including Syria and Iran, and the sooner the better.

As a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Clinton has traveled to both American war zones three times, spent a great deal of time meeting privately with active-duty and retired military personnel at all levels, and immersed herself in the issues that are most critical to the presidential role of Commander-in-Chief.

The nation needs a new president who on taking office will withdraw our troops from Iraq responsibly and swiftly (Bush won't). Although her position has been misrepresented by some during the heat of the campaign, this is precisely what she has pledged to do.

She has said she will convene the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and her national security team to draw up a safe and viable plan for the withdrawal of our solider from Iraq, with the first troops coming home within 60 days of her taking office.

She has also committed herself to a new strategy in Afghanistan, the country in which failure is unthinkable yet Bush has consistently sent too few troops while proclaiming success in the face of undeniable deterioration. This is what I meant when I talked about her commanding knowledge and readiness to be our next Commander-in-Chief.

On the second point, an attempt has been made to suggest that my words in 2006 are somehow a call for action against Iran. So let me be clear: I have consistently opposed the use of force against Iran, as has Hillary.

Well before the NIE, I stated publicly and repeatedly that nothing we knew supported a war against Iran. The NIE only reinforced my position. Senator Clinton also opposes any military action against Iran and said so long before the NIE, and took to the Senate floor last February to oppose the Bush administration's saber rattling.

- Richard C. Holbrooke

Corky...

You are just like Hillary: unable to answer a simple question with a simple answer!

NOWHERE in your flowery diatribe is there ONE SINGLE PIECE OF LEGISLATION that changed the lives of all the people she so deeply cares about. Why is that? Foreign policy isn't glad-handing and holding meetings, its the ability to affect changes for the better. Substantive, positive change that impacts real people and improves their lives in measurable ways. Why hasn't Hillary been able to move her colleagues into bringing change through the immense power of the US Government if she's so "engaged" all across the globe?

You haven't listed one thing that a junior State Department envoy isn't capable of doing as a part of their job. Just like most people who try to rewrite history to suit their own purposes, there's no THERE there whatsoever, and underscores the reason that Hillary's entire campaign is built upon the cult of Bill Clinton, no more, no less. As I said before, ten miles wide and one inch deep!

Corky, Hillary paying you by the letter to post here?

-Hillary sits in Washington or jets off for 5-star treatment as the former First Lady, while Obama travels to hellholes and interacts with the real concerns of people

That's what YOU said, and that is what I retorted.


One need only look to her latest legislation with Lindsey Graham in her effort to get healthcare coverage to National Guard members and Reservists as an example of her legislative efforts.

If you want a full list, you know how to use The Google, eh?

But still, no comment on all the second-level Clinonistas in Obama's "cabinet" undermining the pitch about how Clinton's past policies are irrelevant to to today?

No comment on the vast difference in successful foreign relations experience between he two?

It is well that Richard Holbrooke has resurfaced, because his status as one of Hillary Clinton's foreign policy advisors confirms the belief that she represents the ideas and priorities of the foreign policy establishment, of which he is a proud member. Mr. Holbrooke argues that Mrs. Clinton would not make the mistakes of her allegedly less experienced husband when he took office, citing as an example the latter's supposed failure to "act earlier" in the case of Bosnia. But what exactly would Mr. Holbrooke suggest that Bill Clinton have done "earlier" on Bosnia? Should the U.S. have intervened militarily, in the midst of Slobodan Milosevic's bloody adventurism there? Unlike the 1999 bombing campaign, which punished Serbia for ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, such intervention would have required American ground forces, possibly just as large as were used in Iraq. Would Americans have accepted the same costs in Bosnia that they ultimately rejected in Iraq, given that U.S. security was no more at stake in the Balkans than in Iraq? Or does Mr. Holbrooke mean that Mr. Clinton should have been more vigorous in his diplomacy?

That war began in 1992, before Bill Clinton took office, and European diplomacy, NATO air strikes, and other efforts to suppress it began before Mr. Holbrooke joined the State Department in 1994. Just what does Mr. Holbrooke believe President Clinton could have done but did not do, and which he implies that his wife would do? We particularly need to know if that action could entail the use of American forces in a theatre of war in which the U.S. has no security interests -- because that was the reality in the Balkans, and that is a presidential action which Americans today would likely not approve in 2009. And that is precisely the worry about Hillary Clinton, who not only voted for the Iraq war, but voted to brand a part of the Iranian military as a terrorist organization -- thereby handing to President Bush the arguable justification to use American military forces against Iran, in the name of fighting terrorism.


www.huffingtonpost.com

More 90s thinking from the 90s establishmentarian candidate. Except its 2007, not 1993. Time to move on, isn't it?

Thank God I am Not Hellary's Karl Rove. Boy that would suck BIG TIME.

Larry Mohr

Corky...

I truly wish you'd stop trying to make such juvenile insinuations on issues I've never spoken about. I've BRAGGED about the fact so many former Clinton staffers are now on Obama's side. No good President worth his/her salts wouldn't try to surround themselves with the best and the brightest. I've never criticized the policy people Bill Clinton had in his government. Its the political folks that poisoned the well.

But at the end of the day, its still the judgment of the President which is the most important determinant. Barack and Hillary appear to tackle issues from differing sides and perspectives as is their want. The questions asked will lead to different choices and likely different results. Hillary cannot/will not take responsibility for being so wrong in aligning herself with Bush and the neo-cons on both Iraq and Iran, and her absolute dereliction of duty in not taking the time to read the 2002 NIE cannot be forgiven by the thousands upon thousands of lives irrepairably snuffed out or negatively altered due to Congress' treason against this nation's interests. I still do not understand why Obama hasn't used this issue to destroy Hillary's candidacy, especially when the topic of the Iran NIE is fresh in the public's mind. You know that I believe this abdication eliminates her from even being considered for being POTUS. No one deserving of the office should have been so cavalier in sending US children to kill and be killed when the information used as impetus for the fateful decision was built of lies and fabrications told by lunatics and tortured individuals willing to say anything to stop being tortured.


Tony,

Some 70 Dems voted Yes on that resolution, which GW then ignored as to it's requirement to finish inspections.

Obama said he "didn't know" how he would have voted when first asked.

You should get over yourself.

Tony,

Some 70 Dems voted Yes on that resolution, which GW then ignored as to it's requirement to finish inspections.

Obama said he "didn't know" how he would have voted when first asked.

You should get over yourself.


Bullshit Corky! How many times are you going to use essentially a "no comment" to construe it the way you want to?

Senator Clinton voted to approve the new mission for our troops, and she blessed the new rationale for their continued presence in Iraq. Senator Obama did not. Senator Clinton was willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the Administration on this matter. Senator Obama was not. Her support for Kyl-Lieberman draws attention to a series of other important differences between Senators Obama and Clinton on Iraq and Iran.

The amendment also:

- Was co-sponsored by two of the most hawkish members of the Senate on Iran: John Kyl (R-AZ) and Joseph Lieberman (ID-CT);

- Was supported by all but two Republicans: Chuck Hagel (R-NE) and Richard Lugar (R-IN)

- Was opposed by ten other Senators who, like Senator Obama, support sanctioning the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization: Barbara Boxer (D-CA); Sherrod Brown (D-OH); Maria Cantwell (D-WA); Christopher Dodd (D-CT); Daniel Inouye (D-HI); Edward Kennedy (D-MA); John Kerry (D-MA); Amy Klobuchar (D-MN); Blanche Lincoln (D-AR); John Tester (D-MT)

Importantly, Kyl-Lieberman does not include language that the Senate has deemed necessary to include in other provisions related to Iran, specifically a provision saying:

- "Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize or otherwise speak to the use of Armed Forces against Iran."


Trying to Have it Both Ways: After Senator Clinton drew criticism for her vote in support of Kyl-Lieberman on September 26, she decided to support a bill that Senator Webb introduced in March that said that the President had to obtain congressional authorization before going to war in Iran. Webb told Howard Fineman that Clinton was in such a hurry to support his bill, "I found out after she announced it," he said, laughing.'" But Kyl-Lieberman had already passed the Senate; Webb's bill has not. Signing on with Webb does not undo her vote for Kyl-Lieberman.


thinkonthesethings.wordpress.c
om


The truth is readily available Corky, if you'd have the integrity of actually reporting it instead of more lies.

Now, if Obama had missed the vote and not taken a position on the issue, then I'd see where you can go after him. However, I don't quite understand the logic of attacking him when he took a position on it!

If preventing an Iran war was so important to Obama, why didn't he show up and have it as "his issue"?

This is even more interesting because before this Kyl-Lieberman vote, Barack Obama was already out there talking about the need for economic sanctions and diplomacy, not military action, and Crooks and Liars went after him! You can't have it both ways. He has made numerous statements before the vote about this issue. See:

* 9/12/07: Obama to Bush: You Don't Have Our Authorization for War with Iran
* 8/30/07: Barack Obama Editorial: Hit Iran Where It Hurts
* 8/29/07: Alabama Senator Blocking Obama's Iran Divestment Bill
* 7/31/07: Obama Urges Swift Passage of Iran Divestment Bill
* 5/17/07: Barack Obama Introduces Iran Divestment Bill

Therefore, Obama is not a Johnny-come-lately on this issue. He has the right to speak out about it since he has been a public voice on it prior to the Kyl-Lieberman vote in late September.

The Counter-Proliferation Act of 2007 that Obama voted for had language that specifically stated:

Nothing in this Act shall be construed as authorizing the use of force or the use of the United States Armed Forces against Iran.

This act was about economic sanctions rather than military action, something that Obama has long advocated. It specifically checks any potential use to go to war. It also does not connect Iran with Iraq as does the Kyl-Lieberman bill.

thinkonthesethings.wordpress.c
om

Geeze Corky, not only are you lying about Obama's stated intentions about Iran, you've highlighted yet again, the difference between Obama's foreign policy expertise and Hillary's lack of doing anything but "being there". Fancy that, Obama trying to forward legislation to make substantive policy changes in the manner the US deals with Iran, while Hillary runs and puts her name on a bill thats sat for months to cover her obvious mistake that every single Democratic Presidential candidate has chided her on for being so gullible as to follow the lead of Traitor Joe and his neo-con lapdogs! Go figure.

"essentially a "no comment"

roflmfao!!

Do you lift his leg when he needs to pee, too?



Obama voted to fund the war several times after saying he didn't know how he would have voted on that resolution..... were he experienced enough to had even been in the Senate at the time.

Guess that makes him a.. what did you call Clinton above? a child killer?

I notice the Clinton say's he and Bush 1 world tour thread has disappeared. Coincidence?

If Obama had any balls or brains he'd use that one, right now.

Senator Clinton, do you stand behind the assertion made by your husband Bill, yesterday, that should you be elected to the presidency of the United States that Mr. Bush Sr. and your ignoble husband would tour the world restoring America's
reputation?

Corky...

I've never criticized any of our representatives from supporting the troops once they were stationed in Iraq. Obama has spoken very forcefully about not using them as fodder in fighting Bush. Again, your ignorance and purposeful mischaracterization of Obama's easily found stance on this issue only further illuminates your utter lack of honesty. Do you really think no one will check the actual words of Obama against the lies you keep spouting?



"I don't know." - Obama

Liberal radio talker Ed Schultz has had it with Hill and her reluctance to come on his show:

"I am done with the Clintons. I'm done with the cheap shots. I'm done with the innuendos. I'm done with the blaming it on the Des Moines Register. Hillary I do not want you to be the nominee. Biden I do not want you to be the nominee. I'm taking a stand here and I am being self serving. Just like there are Americans out there being self serving about health care. Just like there are Americans out there being self serving about tax cuts or faith and politics. I can't believe that Barack Obama can call me yesterday from his bus just on a whim after we asked about it maybe an hour beforehand . . . You mean to tell me that the guy who happens to be leading in Iowa is so much less busy than Hillary Clinton?"

Rove provided "free advise" to Obama because he considers him the easiest to beat. All he has to do is play the race card. The South still openly hates them niggers and there are plenty in the North that secretly agree.

Comments are closed for this entry.

Drudge Retort

Home | News | Comments | User Blogs | Nooner | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | Copyright 2009 World Readable