Is this man trying to tell us that someone, as yet unnamed, is loading the deck?

Further that unreliable evidence will be allowed?

This would seem to have the greasy fingerprints of Darth Cheney all over it.

90% of 'insurgents' held at Abu Gharib were let go as innocent. How the heck do we know who really belongs in custody and who was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Only a free and fair judicial process can determine that. This isn't American by any stretch of the imagination.

History will look at the Bush Administration as the most corrupt of any Administration in History. An Historians will ask what did America do about it??? This is the shame of America in the first few years of the year 2000 thru 2008.

To think American Politicians from the Republican side of the aisle, had taught it was so important that they had an American President Impeached for lying to cover up a sexual incounter.

Yet after years of spying on Americans, gathering information without warrants, condoning TORTURE, which is a violation of the Geneva Convention. The Republicians saw fit not to have any oversight of this Administration for the first four years of this Administration.

The Elections of 2006 has allowed for the investigation of this President an the Election of 2008 will complete the cycle, the History of this Administration will start on January 2009. That is the Criminal History of this administration will start to be known.

Why do military lawyers "hate America first"?

If Clinton had never got that blowjob...

Davis is a man of integrity. Rather than go along with the tainted military commission, he quit. That takes balls, and I congratulate him and anyone else who puts his reading of the law above his desire to get ahead professionally.

Unfortunately, Bush has a history of hiring psychophants, so those who decide to quit his evil regime are few and far between.

He's a flamming liberal.

And he is gay.

Why do military lawyers "hate America first"?

Posted by SamBarber at 2007-12-10 11:08 PM | Reply

Military lawyers are, first of all and always, lawyers, which means they live by no clear standards of right or wrong. That means they are Leftists. As Leftists they are just whores.

In the military I knew a bunch of lawyers. Their job is to argue on behalf of their client, regardless of what is right or wrong. A lawyer who prosecuted for years might suddenly be the defense, and they all felt this was OK.

Just whores. Just Lefties

I don't know the man, and I can't claim to know about all lawyers. I actually knew a good man who was a lawyer. Only 1 good one, of the few hundred that I have been involved with over the years.

But, anyone who is willing to stand up for what he thinks is right and quit when he can't fix things from within... I think he deserves a measure of respect.

He might be full of shit... but at least he stands up for what he believes.

Their job is to argue on behalf of their client, regardless of what is right or wrong.

And your client is W, vernon. Whore.

It's not enough that justice is done, it must be SEEN to be done.

Somebody Else

"Military lawyers are, first of all and always, lawyers, which means they live by no clear standards of right or wrong."

Really Vernon? And who decides what's right and wrong? According to Christy Fundies in the South as long as the law says you can do it. You can do it, it's "good". "Law says I can kill an unarmed man. Bang. Your dead. I'm going to heaven".

well laws are made by politicians. Who are really scummy.

My belief is the morally bankrupt in the US are conservatives like yourself and the whole Christy FUndies who never contemplae right or wrong but allow others to do it for them. Sheeple.

Lawyers on the other hand get to see how slimy the whole system. It's not lawyers causing the slime it's politicians and everyone who uses it. Including Christy Fundies and RThugs.


"Their job is to argue on behalf of their client, regardless of what is right or wrong"

Oh and it's the job of the lawyer to protect their client and prove their innocence. Remember innocent until proven guilty?

It is NOT the defense attorney's job to try and convict his client you fucking idiot. Do you really want a communist form of justice in America Fucktard?

Treason by any other name!

What the US Military has really done in Guantanamo Bay (in complete collusion with the Bush Govt.) is to pre-emptively bypass and ignore the US Constitution and then set up their own autonomous,self ruling and "fascist" government.If this does not accurately and legally define "treason" then what is treason?

*Maybe another reason this prosecutor quit Gitmo is because he suddenly realized that in that bizarre foreign prison situation he also had no guarantees of protection under the US Constitution.Somebody in the US Military (who didn't like his version of justice) could knock him off and it would then be left up to the same US Military to identify,arrest and try the offender.Not a good deal from any point of view!

Some Americans are about as ignorant as any human being can be!

These are NOT US citizens, entitled to the protections of our US courts! They are non-uniformed combatants, kept in military prisons, overseas!

They fought against the US in Afghanistan and Iraq and killed US troops to advance their goals to rule out of the barrel of a gun!

The only (ONLY) reason you whine and moan about the issue is because you faithless, backstabbing subversives want to allow them to WIN for terrorism; in order to blame Bush for the failure.

You are scumsucking war profiteers -- trying to gain power for your gang, alone, and not for all of the USA fighting against terrorism!

What a pack of squirming, verminous traitors you make yourselves appear in defending our enemy, while attacking fellow Americans!

Tadowe,

You are another fucking moron Christy Fundy. You have to first convict someone of being a combatant before calling them that. Otherwise they are citizens of allies of the US.

Its been long proven that many of the inmates were turned in by their neighbors not because of a crime but becuase of the money offerred. This is the shit that happens when totoletarian regimes such as Bushco go around with secret military tribunals and no fair trials. Innocent people get screwed. All this shit happened in communist central europe after WW2. Got a dicatorship that wants control no questions asked? turn in the neighbors you don't like for money or to steal their property.

Fucktard

Can't TADOWE find something better to do all night than prove he's an idiot and a one trick asshole?

Furio gets mad, "You are another fucking moron Christy Fundy."

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm agnostic.

"You have to first convict someone of being a combatant before calling them that. Otherwise they are citizens of allies of the US."

No -- you don't! If they are caught fighting, then they are the enemy and if not in uniform, may be executed as spies and, or saboteurs -- right there on the spot!

However, the USA is the Mother of All Motherly States and confines them as if they were POWs.

And, for the terminally stupid -- POWs are NOT provided with trials to allow them to go free! They are either repatriated or, after hostilities have ended, tried as war criminals if hearings so decide.

"Its been long proven that many of the inmates were turned in by their neighbors not because of a crime but becuase of the money offerred."

BS, none of those reached Guantanamo! If any are there, then they remain because their country won't repatriate them -- as hundreds have already been repatriated!

You are a simple (in its most pejorative sense) liar intent on discrediting the entire USA, in order to gain partisan political advantage ... a subversive for votes ...

AU blurts, "Can't TADOWE find something better to do all night than prove he's an idiot and a one trick asshole?"

Can't you understand that your attacks and complaints validate my comments? You act out in exactly the way I predict you (amongst the other vermin) will behave! You fail to address the subject, but instead make it into ME!

What agreement do you get? Some squirming from fellow chitinous and chitty creeps?

I'm scaredy, now!

Sorry TADOWE. I just believe in calling an idiot an idiot.

You fail to address the subject, but instead make it into ME!

Your response to every topic is the same old drivel. "Subversive, blah blah blah".

AU makes excuses, "Sorry TADOWE. I just believe in calling an idiot an idiot."

That's exactly why I'm here, AU, to call you subversive vermin, precisely that: backstabbing idiots!

"Your response to every topic is the same old drivel. "Subversive, blah blah blah". "

You can't deny it! Go ahead and present your reasoning to show that the Left and, or Democratics are attempting to subvert the success of this war in Iraq! PLEASE!

not subverting

"Haynes and I have different perspectives and support different agendas, and the decision to give him command over the chief prosecutor's office, in my view, cast a shadow over the integrity of military commissions. I resigned a few hours after I was informed of Haynes' place in my chain of command."

Sounds like this guy has an ax to grind doesn't it. This should be the lead of the story, then proceed with the rest as to show the origins of this mans true complaints.

He obviously doesnt believe evedence gathered through water boarding should be allowed, Im not sure.

Neurumberg trials occured after the war was over and it was very political indeed, although more open. Those people were sentenced and hanged. War crimes are not typically tried until after the war is over. Our country is trying to expediate the process while still at war to apease the UN and american leftists, This requires different standards than at Neurumberg.

The Democratic congress could pass legislation right now to free these detainess, they haven't, they could define procedures to expidite trials, they haven't. Many have been releaesd, many have turned back up on the battlefields trying to kill Americans, and many of them are not wanted by their home countries.

I beleive they should be held as enemy combatants until the surrender of Al Quida and the Taliban.

You can't deny it! Go ahead and present your reasoning to show that the Left and, or Democratics are attempting to subvert the success of this war in Iraq! PLEASE!

I deny it

PS This thread has NOTHING to do with Iraq

AU says, "I deny it."

Thanks for running away from the challenge, Georgie ...

"BS, none of those reached Guantanamo! If any are there, then they remain because their country won't repatriate them -- as hundreds have already been repatriated!"

Tadtwat, that's complete bullshit many in Gitmo were there specifically for being informed on for money. I suspect many more as well. Very few of these guys were captured on any "battlefield". They were turned in by informants. Paid informants, asshole.

Any "insurgants" who attacked US forces were killed. As they should be.

The main reason why there has only been one trial in gitmo is there was no evidence. Big embarrassment.

Also the issue of "insugency" is suspect. When the US initially attacked Afganistan and Iraq how could you call anyone an illegal combatant if they were fighting for their own country against an invader? Shit in the American Revolution there were many non-uniformed insurgants who fought against the British? Forget that shit don't you.

The only people who should be in Gitmo are those planning to attack America. And they should be tried.

Hell even if they are released they can be easily watched. Do you think Al Qaeda would trust any released real terrorists? Odds are they would kill them because of the potential of them being turned to spy. They would no longer be effective or a threat to the US, period.

the stupidity of Gitmo is it gives ammunition to Al Qaeda to say how bad America is. And we get hatred from average citizens in the middle east because of the detainment and torture of innocents they are firends and family with.

And fucking idiots like you defend this shit.

Furio, I know how war works, I went to one at the direction of a Democratic president. You can't tell me how things work ...

As for being peached on by their neighbors -- that is your fear and not reality!

No one gets to Guantanamo who was turned in by their neighbors. That's just what you want to be the "truth" so you can SUBVERT the success of this conflict and embarrass ALL the USA, in order to "get" Bush!

And ... it is now so OBVIOUS!!! You are a party of scumsucking subversives trying to lose a war for votes!!!

That's why the leadership WISH THAT THE STUPID PARTY DUPES WOULD STOP TALKING ABOUT THE WAR!

Some jerks will just never be swift enough to understand even their own marching orders ... and that's why I'm here ... to find you idiots and keep your tacit treason(s) ALIVE FOR THE VIEWER!

I can tell you over-and-over-and-over but you still won't ever get it!?!

Swift was sure right about you Lilliputians ...

Thank you for showing us the way Tadowe. Now you only need to convert 81% more of the country. How could they be so blind. Bush loves us so much he broke the Constitution and made a bunch of money for his friends to keep us safe from an enemy that never was a threat.

Tadowe, why do you think Bush has been talking about Iran having a nukular weapon when he knew they had stopped their program in 2003? Probably just in case to make us safe.

Ben asks, "Tadowe, why do you think Bush has been talking about Iran having a nukular weapon when he knew they had stopped their program in 2003? Probably just in case to make us safe."

Dupes and stooges of the Leftist and, or Democratics believe that Iran stopped any interest in a nuclear bomb in 2003. That's because they can say that Bush knew about it, and embarrass the entire USA, in order to "get" Bush!

How could Bush know, if the NIE just reported it this month? No, don't answer, because I know you think he is so stupid and dumb that he is the greatest intellect since Aristotle! He can know things in the past that won't be revealed until the future! He is amazing, psychic but dumb as rocks ... right? Isn't that what you genii all claim?

If ANYONE knew in 2003 that Iran wasn't persuing nuclear weapons ... then why is it just now that you dupes and stooges of subversion are getting the message out?

That's the trouble with allowing "folks" like you the power to run the greatest nation the Earth has ever known ... you believe anything that your masters tell you to believe and say anything you are told to say ...

Little, in-step, brownshirts wielding your political batons on orders to attack and destroy the real enemy of the United States!

Not Terrorists! Not those intent on ruining our successful economy! But the real enemy ...

Fellow Americans who vote for the best choice, and not your gang ... that's who you attack, revile, dehumanize and defame ... not any terrorists who behead an American with a hunting knife ...

No, you and your vicious ilk are too busy hating fellow Americans and attacking them as if they were the ones doing human sacrifice; instead of your allies: al Qaeda and both of you wanting a victory over Bush by promoting a defeat in Iraq.

What a scurrilous gang of squirming vermin!

"Furio, I know how war works, I went to one at the direction of a Democratic president. You can't tell me how things work ..."

I think you only have a clue about your squad and not much else. You were in Vietman, maybe in combat although most US military in Vietnam were in non-combat roles.

Now how does this make you an expert on Gitmo, terror suspects, Al Qaeda, torture and implementation of the Geneva conventions?

These are NOT US citizens, entitled to the protections of our US courts! They are non-uniformed combatants, kept in military prisons, overseas!

Posted by tadowe

You are correct. Did FDR let the lawyers into the prison camps we had for the POWs in WWII? They all stayed in the camps until the war was over. Many of thoes camps were here in the US.

Oh, I forgot, the CIA told him of the memo back then, but he didn't ask what was actually in the memo and they never told him. Sorry, my bad. Those CIA guys are such tricksters.

Furio asks, "I think you only have a clue about your squad and not much else. You were in Vietman, maybe in combat although most US military in Vietnam were in non-combat roles."

So what? I happened to be stationed at the Vietnamese National Police Headquarters, and which was designated: Combined Military Interrogation Center, by MACV advisory unit. It was the equivalent of abu Ghraib. Put that in your pipe and smoke it ...

"Now how does this make you an expert on Gitmo, terror suspects, Al Qaeda, torture and implementation of the Geneva conventions?"

I know how these centers work, that's why ... you don't ...

"Dupes and stooges of the Leftist and, or Democratics believe that Iran stopped any interest in a nuclear bomb in 2003. That's because they can say that Bush knew about it, and embarrass the entire USA, in order to "get" Bush!"

How the fuck do you know? You've been to Iran and inspected them?

"How could Bush know, if the NIE just reported it this month? "

FUCKING MORON!!! It was reported to the public last month you fucking retard. Do you think, perhaps, that the Preisdent gets classified reports BEFORE they go out on CNN? Shit there are reports just being de-classified from WW2 now.

"So what? I happened to be stationed at the Vietnamese National Police Headquarters, and which was designated: Combined Military Interrogation Center, by MACV advisory unit. It was the equivalent of abu Ghraib. Put that in your pipe and smoke it ... "

And what were you the little corporal who made coffee? Vietnam's Radar O'Reilly?

Tadowe, if all of these people in the U.S. are subversives, shouldn't we lock them up?

Sniper, good point. Bush and Cheney have said that this war may go on for our lifetimes. Since the war is always on-going should we keep POWs in prison this long without war trials?

Also, should we expect other countries to follow the Geneva Convention? What if other countries started picking up our citizens in other countries and holding them without trial. Would we have a leg to stand on to criticise this?

"Did FDR let the lawyers into the prison camps we had for the POWs in WWII?"

Uh he let in the Red Cross and about any other inspectors imaginable. In addition the German POWs were helping out on farms and even on family owned farms. Many weren't even guarded when they worked.

A lot of Germans stayed after the war was over because of how well they were treated as POWs in America.

A little bit different experience than Gitmo.

Fucking idiot.

Furio sneers, "And what were you the little corporal who made coffee? Vietnam's Radar O'Reilly?"

In a way -- I was a 2d Lieutenant and although assigned as an interrogator, was given the job of editing the reports produced by the Vietnamese side of the center. Later, I was assigned as Administration Officer and wrote the TO&E when the the center was expanded.

The CIA had seperate facilities, of course, but would come and shop on occasion at the center ...

I love your snears and efforts to belittle my experience(s) ... natches!

Tadowe got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning!

My experience has taught me that when a person becomes more desperate to shire up a failed argument, the angrier and more unreasoned they become. In that respect, both Tadowe and Vernon have certainly "jumped the couch"...and then some.

But TADOWE has taken this to the nth degree with the Cheney-shotgun approach to invective and completely unsupported opinion wrapped in self-righteous pontification.

"I know how these centers work.." indeed, sir? You worked at Gitmo? No? Then you have NO idea how Gitmo works. It's been over 30 years since your service in Vietnam. Or are you yet another DR troll who bellows "if you didn't serve in the military, then you know nothing and your opinion means nothing"?

"In a way -- I was a 2d Lieutenant and although assigned as an interrogator, was given the job of editing the reports produced by the Vietnamese side of the center. Later, I was assigned as Administration Officer and wrote the TO&E when the the center was expanded."

A fucking clerk.

I don't understand all the confidence Furio and his little friends have placed in the recent intelligence report. Remember, these are the same intelligence organizations that MISSED Iran's nuclear program for twenty fuckin' years. Just two years ago they said Iran was persuing a bomb. The same "intelligence" organizations said Saddam had WMD. remember when they designated the Chinese embassy for bombing in Kosovo by "mistake? Boy, China was pissed about THAT. These "intelligence" organizations had Clinton bomb an innocent pahrmaceutical factory in the Sudan too. They were never very efficient in assessing Russian capability either. The fall of the Soviet Union and the Berlin wall surprised the shit out of them. Shall I go on...?

NOW, all of a sudden, they report Iran stopped it's nuke weapon program years ago and Furio and his little friends accept it as gospel. Go figure....are our little friends REALLY that gullible/stupid or are they just using this as a tool to bash the U.S. and the present administration...Hmmmmm?

TADOWE = REMF

"Remember, these are the same intelligence organizations that MISSED Iran's nuclear program for twenty fuckin' years. "

Good point. So we don't know a single thing that Iran is doing by your estimate. So why the fuck should we go to war with them?

Why do you even waste the time to type if you are going to kill your own argument?

Is logic such a foreign concept to you?

Tadowe, you may or may not have done what you say. But, since we have all read your other posts from today and many other days your credibility has been shot to hell, so it is hard to believe anything you write. Also, it is obvious you are not on this site to do anything but antagonize. Maybe it is fun for you, maybe you don't have anything else in your life.

But for the rest of us, it is hard to even work up the energy to respond to you. It's like a kid talking shit and kicking you in the leg. Its kinda funny at first, but after awhile you tired of their shit and slap them over the head. You feel bad about it, but enough is enough.

I truely feel sorry for you. What a horrible life you must leave.

Be back in an hour.

Ben wonders, "Tadowe, if all of these people in the U.S. are subversives, shouldn't we lock them up?"

I don't know about that? It is one thing to be a subversive, and another thing to show that you intented to overthrow the US government. Each is allowed political freedom of speech. You can utter subversions all day long (Leftists and, or Democratics do constantly) but not be subject to being locked-up.

However, I understand the tactic of raising strawman arguments like yours! It is a desperate effort to avoid the fact that YOU ARE ACTING OUT SUBVERSIVELY TO LOSE A WAR IN ORDER TO GAIN POLITICAL ADVANTAGE ...

"Bush and Cheney have said that this war may go on for our lifetimes. Since the war is always on-going should we keep POWs in prison this long without war trials?"

The process of repatriation goes on, but the countries involved DO NOT WANT THEM BACK! They certainly wouldn't put them on trial, but they fear releasing them might backfire and place terrorist elements in their own societies ...

"Also, should we expect other countries to follow the Geneva Convention? What if other countries started picking up our citizens in other countries and holding them without trial. Would we have a leg to stand on to criticise this?"

See? Once again the fact that these are non-uniformed enemy combatants passes right by your attention! All POWs are held until hostilities cease, then their nations are asked to repatriate them ...

Guess what? They aren't wanted back!

"subversions" is a source control system fucktard.

-I despise those who use attempt to gain political advantage by trying to lose a war!

I love those who attempt to gain political advantage by preemptive invading another country based on false intel with the purpose of profiteering.

- Tadouche

"You're right! I am here because I despise those who use attempt to gain political advantage by trying to lose a war! I want to say it over-and-over again: I think you and your ilk are verminous scum for playing politics with a war ALL of the USA is fighting!"

Typical macho spewing from a REMF.

Guess you also think Kerry was a pussy also

"You're right! I am here because I despise those who use attempt to gain political advantage by trying to lose a war! I want to say it over-and-over again: I think you and your ilk are verminous scum for playing politics with a war ALL of the USA is fighting!"

Typical macho spewing from a REMF.

Guess you also think Kerry was a pussy also

"it is absolutely critical to the legitimacy of the military commissions that they be conducted in an atmosphere of honesty and impartiality."

"Transparency is critical."

Decent people know how important these things are.

I do not what to think of those who disagree with those statements. The only thing that makes sense is that they fear the truth and do not want the truth to be told.

Please provide me with an alternative reason for disagreeing with these statements.

(You can see the identify the two different perspectives from reading the posts above.)

"it is absolutely critical to the legitimacy of the military commissions that they be conducted in an atmosphere of honesty and impartiality."

"Transparency is critical."

Decent people know how important these things are.

I do not what to think of those who disagree with those statements. The only thing that makes sense is that they fear the truth and do not want the truth to be told.

Please provide me with an alternative reason for disagreeing with these statements.

(You can see the identify the two different perspectives from reading the posts above.)

"If I were the tyrant -- you'd all be as quiet as the little rodents you just happen to be!"

So you admit that if you had it your way you would repress freedom.

-Glad to see your true colors Tadowe-, all your comments make much more sense now.

Vermin spewed:
"verminous scum for playing politics with a war ALL of the USA is fighting!"

HAHA only in your little mind...is all of the USA fighting a war. Your desperation and mental state are showing in your posts.

And Tadowe says: "........."

that's right, for all I know that is what he said because I don't read the rantings of lunatics. Why the rest of you dignify the crazy spittle spewing idiot is beyond me.
My one concern is that I truely hope the authorities have removed all the sharp objects from his padded cell.

I think most lawyers would agree -- it is absolutely critical to the legitimacy of the military commissions that they be conducted in an atmosphere of honesty and impartiality.

That from a lawyer. Give me a break. There isn't a one of them that believes in fairness, honesty, and impariality. They argue their case to win, not for truth and fairness.

"My one concern is that I truely hope the authorities have removed all the sharp objects from his padded cell." Posted by danni

I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but it applies.

Also, should we expect other countries to follow the Geneva Convention? What if other countries started picking up our citizens in other countries and holding them without trial. Would we have a leg to stand on to criticise this?

Posted by BenFranklinn

Don't look now but it is happening on the mexican border.

Sounds like this guy has an ax to grind doesn't it. This should be the lead of the story, then proceed with the rest as to show the origins of this mans true complaints.


Whats wrong with having an axe to grind? Especially if that axe is true to the point? Do you think hes doing this out of hatred for Bush? Or something other than exactly what he stated he was doing it for?


Neurumberg trials occured after the war was over and it was very political indeed, although more open. Those people were sentenced and hanged. War crimes are not typically tried until after the war is over. Our country is trying to expediate the process while still at war to apease the UN and american leftists, This requires different standards than at Neurumberg.


Is that not the idea of a "new kind of war"? Because you hit the nail on the head, this wasn't WWII, and the guys we have locked up aren't nazi's. According to the admin we may very well be on this war for 50 or more years, shit we can't even finish out Iraq. When is the war going to be over? Anyone even have the vaguest idea? Does it end with Iraq?


The Democratic congress could pass legislation right now to free these detainess, they haven't, they could define procedures to expidite trials, they haven't. Many have been releaesd, many have turned back up on the battlefields trying to kill Americans, and many of them are not wanted by their home countries.


In fact they can't, this has been hashed out before. These people are under military authority, and congress has no command over the military.

Treason by any other name!

What the US Military has really done in Guantanamo Bay (in complete collusion with the Bush Govt.) is to pre-emptively bypass and ignore the US Constitution and then set up their own autonomous,self ruling and "fascist" government.If this does not accurately and legally define "treason" then what is treason?

*Maybe another reason this prosecutor quit Gitmo is because he suddenly realized that in that bizarre foreign prison situation he also had no guarantees of protection under the US Constitution.Somebody in the US Military (who didn't like his version of justice) could knock him off and it would then be left up to the same US Military to identify,arrest and try the offender.Not a good deal from any point of view!

Cheney, his pet Chimp, Rumsfeld, Gonzales and Yee et al are all treasonous facist traitors who have failed to uphold the constitution and participated in war crimes and general crimes against humanity.

They deserve to be impeached, indicted and imprisoned for the rest of their miserable lives.

Spud's been saying all this fer a while now.

Be Well.