They all suck, on both sides of the aisle.

How Harman, Pelosi, Graham and Rockefeller can sleep at night, especially considering that they knew and tacitly approved of these torture centers, yet later on condemn them for the sake of political advantage is beyond me.

Hypocrites.

How are those Democrats responsible when they didn't control congress in 2002 Pray tell Me THAT LCL??

Larry Mohr

Larry, I was unaware that you had to control Congress to raise a formal objection. Or an informal one. 30 briefings, to six key Democrats--not a peep.

But if you want to hide behind the fact that they were in a razor-thin minority during that time, it's your prerogative. So it begs the question: what has the new Congress done about waterboarding? You know, now that they have the majority.

They all suck, on both sides of the aisle.

Now now, Lefty, they don't all suck on both sides of the aisle.

They only mostly all suck on both sides of the aisle and the righties have been sucking harder than the lefties fer a while now.

Well, with a bi-sexual ex-cheerleader to lead them they haff a considerable advantage on that front, eh?

How Harman, Pelosi, Graham and Rockefeller can sleep at night, especially considering that they knew and tacitly approved of these torture centers, yet later on condemn them for the sake of political advantage is beyond me.

Kinda reminds Spud of the ole Good Cop/ Bad Cop tactic writ LARGE.

But there is a difference between initiating global torture centers and perpetuating the system and tacitly approving of same ya gotta admit.

Be Well.

The good guys are SUPPOSED to control congress. They have not yet let that sink in. They COULD stop waterboarding, they could stop all torture and illegal detentions without benefit of habeas corpus. Indeed, they could stop the mideast war.

They're still scared shitless of their own power. They're scared shitless by the inevitable round of accusations from the likes of RisR, Oorah and Bowa that they're somehow wimping out on bringing god and democracy to them thar godless ayrabs. Maybe when we get the White House AND a vetoproof congress. But don't hold your breath. herm

They're scared shitless by the inevitable round of accusations from the likes of RisR, Oorah and Bowa

Wow, I didn't know I wielded that much power over the Democratic majority in Congress -- but thank you -- I kinda like it.


LOL

When the Democrats were in the minority they complained they couldn't do anything becuase of the Republicans.

Now the Democrats are in the majority and they are complaining they can't do anything because of the Republicans.

Maybe it is about time the democrats stop blaming others and take a look at their own failings for once.

The fact is, that they got to be the majority because they whined and complained about how incompetant the GOP was and that if only they could be majority they would do better -- well they have been even worse - which is why the popularity of Congress is at an all time low.

Hilarious.

And there are some democrats here who actually believe that they are going to pick up more seats and take the presidency in a landslide next year.

amazing.

"And there are some democrats here who actually believe that they are going to pick up more seats and take the presidency in a landslide next year."

Hans, I believe that the democrats may pick up some seats next year, they may even win the Presidency -- I just don't think it will be a landslide as some people here have suggested.

So much can happen between now and then -- and the last I checked almost 30% of the population defined themselves as "independents" so I think everything is wide open.

Howdy Hans!,

And I can't wait to see who shows up here on retort the day after the election.

Posted by Derfla5 at 2006-08-19 06:58 PM

Spud is thank Hans fer that blast from the past.

Truly you are the Drudge Retort's unofficial Historian!

Ha! Keeping the wingnutZ honest around this place is almost a full time concern!

amazing

Not really when you consider that innacuracy, lies and denial are stock in trade fer the RTs hereabouts!

^_^

Be Well.

PS: Hope you and yers are keeping Merry this time o' year. Spud's had about 8 cups of Joe at thisd point and is still managing to keep off the cigarettes!!

RT's who fuck with dethpud today are just asking to get lampasted!!

"Of course, like any normal person -- nobody on their right mind would ever look at someone being waterboarded by the CIA and say "That's inhuman. That's torture""

Noboby in their right mind?!?!?

" In this instance, the relevant rule - the law - as long been clear: Waterboarding detainees amounts to illegal torture in all circumstances. To suggest otherwise - or even to give credence to such a suggestion - represents both an affront to the law and to the core values of our nation."
Sincerely,
Rear Admiral Donald J. Guter, United States Navy (Ret.)
Judge Advocate General of the Navy, 2000-02
Rear Admiral John D. Hutson, United States Navy (Ret.)
Judge Advocate General of the Navy, 1997-2000
Major General John L. Fugh, United States Army (Ret.)
Judge Advocate General of the Army, 1991-93
Brigadier General David M. Brahms, United States Marine Corps (Ret.)
Staff Judge Advocate to the Commandant, 1985-88"

So these 4 former JAGs are not "in their right mind" according to Bowa. Of course, it's only fair, since according to the JAGs statement, Bowa "represents both an affront to the law and to the core values of our nation".

"Spud is thank Hans fer that blast from the past."

And a tip o' the Tilley back at you, my friend.

Hope you have a great one as well (and that includes Boxing Day).

Hans

"Not pouring a cup of water over a person's face, such as waterboarding...."

You mean triggering neuropsychological reflexes that absolutely convince the subject he is in the process of being murdered?

Evil people torture.

"Of course, like any normal person -- nobody on their right mind would ever look at someone being waterboarded by the CIA and say "That's inhuman. That's torture""

Oops:

Nations and terrorist groups that practice real torture on prisoners ala the al-qadea handbook must be laughing at us over how silly we are over CIA "waterboarding" which is commonly used for training on our own troops and even the occassional journalist without even the slightest injury.

Oh Bowa, yer such an under-informed goombah at times Spud can't help but laff at yas.

Repeating stale talking points over and over like they gain more credibility with each spew?

Spud'll repeat hisself here...

The CIA have spent the last fifty years perfecting torture and interrogation techniques. Compared to them guys the AQ and practically every nation on earth are rank amatuers in direct comparison. See Ewan Cameron's "research" in the fifties. Operation Phoenix in 'Nam. Ray-gun the sadistic prick's practises in South and Central America.

Waterboarding is and should always be crime. If the so-called last super-power on Earth has finally turned torture into an official state policy (despite Bush's continual denials of same) then the world has truly gobe to hell.

During this effort in Iraq uncounted numbers of people have been tortured. Some to death, some to madness. And you just keep spewing yer shit like some doll li'l kids pull the string on.

One released prisoner,a British citizen told his lawyers there is now an entire section of the prison, Delta Block, reserved for "at least fifty" detainees who are in permanently delusional states. A declassified letter from the FBI to the Pentagon described one high value prisoner who had been "subjected to intense isolation for over three months" and was "evidencing behaviour consistent with extreme psychological trauma (talking to non-existent people, reporting hearing voices, crouching in his cell covered with a sheet for hours on end)...

The situation worsened markedly in January 2007, when 165 prisoners were moved into a new wing of the prison, known as Camp Six, where the steel isolation cells allowed for no human contact. Sabin Willett, a lawyer who represents several Guantanimo prisoners warned that if the situation continued "You're going to have an insane asylum

"Can't tell the differnce...."

You are the one that's lost. I feel sorry for you.

"I;ve seen the photos and video of waterboarding. and it ain't torture."

So you've seen photos, and therefore you know more than four former JAGs? Bwahahahahahahahahaha! WTF are you smoking?

"This is torture"

So the fuck what? The fact "they" torture worse doesn't make our torture accecptable. Moral relativists like you, who think "our" torture is OK because it's not as bad as "their" torture are part of the problem, or, as the JAGs would say, "an affront to the core values of our nation".

"anybody can see with their own two eyes that waterboarding is not torture. "

Why do you lie like that, when there's a letter from four JAGs who've been able to see, with their own two eyes, that waterboarding IS torture?

The JAGs are right: You're "an affront to the core values of our nation." You're part of the problem.

Actually, I'm Zed. I'm afraid I don't care about what you see with your two eyes, as I understand the mechanism of waterboarding too well.

From your comments, you could care less about what that mechanism might be.

Once again, I'm very glad to be on my side of this cultural divide. I may be forced into Hell when I die, but not before then by sadists who consider themselves to be well-intentioned.

I guess I'm really bothered by people who are relativists when it comes to our standards- ie, when establishing proper conduct we should not evaluate it according to our laws, constitution and treaties, but by what others do.

This is not how we became a beacon of freedom to the world, and it stains the nation and is an insult to everyone who died to protect our code of conduct and our constitutional democratic republic.

Even beyond the bizarre discussions about torture, there reamins the sad fact that we are now a nation that abducts people and sends them to terror states, claims that we can indefinitely detain people without challenge, and destroy evidence requested by our own elected representatives.

That a citizen would defend this activity, or that an elected official would tacity condone it is a blight on our country, and an embarassment before the world.

If the so-called last super-power on Earth has finally turned torture into an official state policy

Stop with the bullshit Lefty talking points already spud ..I mean really. This has been the most "humane" war ever fought in history -- never has a nation gone so out of its way to try and prevent collateral death and damage.

As for this nation and real al-qaeda like torture, the USA has a long and gory history of engaging in real torture and murder of our enemies -- the Civil War, WW2, our "greatest generation" was filled with murderes and torturers by the standards of spud and other here. As Genreal Tecumsheh Sherman what he thought about "torture" of enemy combatants.

How in the hell did the USA survive Sherman? By the reasoning of Liberals it should not have?

How in the hell did it survive all the torture and murder comitted by "our greatest generation" By the reasoning of Liberals it should not have?

And now we have all the Lefties in an uproar because approxiamtely three times a few years ago, the CIA poured a cup of water over some terrorists face for about 30 seconds each in order to get them to give up information which saved lives.

Like I am supposed to care, call that torture, give a crap, or condemn my own country for doing that. Not a chance. I applaud them. Good job. Keep up the good work.

Ever see the recent movie "300"? I understand there are some people who are weirded out how many see Bush as being Xerxes and not Leonidas.

Well, Leonidas might throw the odd Persian down a well, but he wouldn't waterboard him first.

That a citizen would defend this activity, or that an elected official would tacity condone it is a blight on our country, and an embarassment before the world.

that is laughable.

And what is this activity that is a "blight" on our country. Pouring a cup over water for 30 seconds over a terrorists face -- terrorist who would kill as many americans as he could if given the chance -- in order to get actinable intelligence which saved lives.

Yeah, I am real embarrassed that we did that.

I'm so embarrassed I think we should do it a lot more. Sounds like it is one of the most effective interrogation tools we have.

Actually, I'm Zed. I'm afraid I don't care about what you see with your two eyes, as I understand the mechanism of waterboarding too well

Good for you Zed.

And how does that compare to the mechanisms of real torture like having your hand cut off, your eye gouged out, or a hole drilled into your side by an electric drill?

Well, later all -- I'm going for a massage, a facial and some waterboarding -- just to get the blood going.

LOL


see ya tomorrow.

"some waterboarding"

It can be arranged.

"I wonder what the difference is between Bowa and McCain?"

A few years in a North Vietnam POW camp, for one thing.

Bowa won't be happy until we start stoning women and cutting off hands, too.

He and Rudy are trying to get that written into the GOP platform.

"stoning women"

BC bud?

"And how does that compare to the mechanisms of real torture like having your hand cut off, your eye gouged out, or a hole drilled into your side by an electric drill?"

Easy. They're both torture, and both evil.

Lesser evil is still evil. Stealing ten thousand vs. ten million is still thievery. And "kinder" torture is still torture.

Waterboarding was torture during WWII, when it was done to our soldiers. What was the exact date it stopped becoming torture? 9/12/01? March 2003? Or Jan 21st, 2001?

Moral relativists, defending torture, are part of the problem, and "an affront to the core values of this nation".

Bowa won't be happy until we start stoning women and cutting off hands, too.
POSTED BY CORKY

Excluding select Goomah.

And Bowa continues to lie and run.

What a weak, WEAK man.

And Bowa continues to lie and run.

What a weak, WEAK man.

POSTED BY LISA

He isn't running.

He can only do one thing at a time get his "girlfriend" a phone number or recite partisan bullshit.

How are those Democrats responsible when they didn't control congress in 2002 Pray tell Me THAT LCL??

Posted by LarryMohr

Who said they were responsible, all that was said is they knew about it and didn't say anything for a long time. Then the election comes along and they get bent out of shape. Don't tell me they are playing politics with the truth.

BC bud?

You called fer Spud, Zat?

Where's all the stoned chicks at?

Spud heard there was a party here or sommat!

Woo Hoo!

Spud just had hisself a little (okay a large) Dandelion Break in order to celebrate the conviction of Robert "Willie" Picton on 6 counts of second degree murder.

Now he's only got another 20 murder charges to face but at this point that's just dotting the 'I's and crossing the 'T's.

Like Clifford Robert Olsen before him another serial killer from BC is never gonna be a free man again!

To repeat WOO FUCKING HOO!!!

Is huge news up here in Canader, eh?

Maybe CNN will do a piece on it later on this week if they're having a slow news day or sommat.

Be Well.

PS: Fuggit another *DB* is well in order!!

And Bowa continues to lie and run.

What a weak, WEAK man.

~Lisa

Actually, Spud heard Bowa was a strong man... but SMELL isn't everything!!

Ha! Deth is GIDDY Spud!!!

Be Well.

Boy if Lokisfur ain't deluded I don't know what is. Let's face it He supports torture.

Larry Mohr

Moral relativists

I love it when leftist shit throws this term about.

Relativism is the conflation of "waterboarding" with thumbscrews and disembowelment.

Relativism is the moral preening that requires you to treat your mortal enemy as you would a defendent in your own civil court system.

If you wish to advance the argument that this country should be above the (relative) mistreatment if its Al Qaeda prisoners, then you subscribe to the doctrine of American exceptionalism. And if you subscribe to the doctrine of American exceptionalism, you must also subscribe to the ideas that the American government should do what it must to win.

But if you don't subscribe to the doctrine of American exceptionalism because you're a "nuanced" piece of leftwing shit that doesn't believe in silly constructs like "good guys vs. bad guys", then you really don't have a leg to stand on when you criticize your government's visitation of discomfort upon terrorist prisoners---as they're on the same moral plane as we are.

They'll do whatever they need to in order to win.

I expect my government to do the same---because we're on the right side.

In the waning days of WWII, the Mustang and Thunderbolt drivers---bereft of targets opportunities due to a decimated Luftwaffe---were just assigned 50 x 50 mile grids within the German countryside and told to fly them at low level and strafe anything that moved.

And so they did.

I find that a hell of a lot more despicable than "waterboarding" some fucking barbarian Arab at Club Gitmo.

At least the Germans were civilized.

Mao says:

Relativism is the conflation of "waterboarding" with thumbscrews and disembowelment.


You do realize that true liberal thinkers, like Boyd, will (indirectly) posit that pointing out the (obvious) differences that you allude to as blanket-acceptance of all attrocitites committed at the hands of the US.


It's 'all-or-nothing', you know.

I have a question to liberals who are against "water boarding" techniques. How do you make a harden person to give INTEL? Let's here the alternatives that work better...I like to see them, for how can they sleep at night with weak INTEL if terrorists are killing innocent people.

As far as the Dems I been saying this before and I'll say it again, when they were briefed on the "water boarding" techniques, the war was popular when opinion changed, they started fussing about it..."water boarding is a simulates a drowning but the person doesn't drown. Compared to what they do, it's a very civil technique to get INTEL from the harden ones.

You do realize that true liberal thinkers, like Boyd, will (indirectly) posit that pointing out the (obvious) differences that you allude to as blanket-acceptance of all attrocitites committed at the hands of the US.

But notice, at that point, the notions "true liberal thinkers" (*snicker*)require us to begin defending the strategic history of our own country.

The point of contention changes from simple "waterboarding" in 2007, to a comprehensive request for self-flagellation and loathing of 200+ years of existence.

But don't you dare question Boyd's patriotism.

All these questions occur at every conflict and with each new generation. When the USA went to Bosnia, military prisons were established and interrogations of prisoners conducted.

Why wasn't waterboarding criticised then? Because the waterboarding was being done by a Democratic president, and the slavish, pissant cowards were all in favor of using 'torture' on genocidal Europeans!

Now, of course, the waterboarding is being done by a Republican president, and used on their allies: the Islamic practioners of human sacrifice whom they assist in winning in Iraq, so they whine and moan in order to subvert the success of this war.

After all, how could they ever look themselves in the mirror if they complimented a Republican for ending genocide?

They would melt-down into a puddle; leaving their shit-stained Bostonians behind as a reminder of their previous status as slavish members of the yellow-dog party: The People's Progressive Democratic Party uber alles ...

...the notions of "true liberal thinkers" (*snicker*) require...

The People's Progressive Democratic Party

The People's Progressive Democrat Party.

Don't profane the otherwise noble term by using it to label shit.

Some pissant tyrant orders, "Don't profane the otherwise noble term by using it to label shit."

Step over here and make me, dufus ...

I'll fuck your old ass up.

Bad.

Pinche Mao issues a threat, "I'll fuck your old ass up."

Well ... maybe Pinche Mao is actually cruising ...?

Which is it tirantito? You a faggot, or an internet threatener? Third choice of: stupid idiot, perhaps?

Step over here and make me, dufus ...

Woo Hoo!

Spud is glad he got up to check the comments now!

Taddles and Mao who should be brothers in arms united against a sea of lefties are practically alone here at this time of night so they are begining to get into a fight! Too precious!

Spud begins to get the idear that if ya locked either of them in a room by themselves they would begin arguing with themselves within the first fifteen minutes and would no doubt go on to try and beat themselves up lacking anyone else around to bear the brunt of their aggresive tendencies.

B.F. Skinner woulda had a field day with you two freaks, ya know that?

Now ...on topic?

A) Waterboarding is torture.

B) The US under Bush has devolved into a stinking torture state thinking that, like Iran and China and too many other places on this earth, it's okay to torture as long as you keep on denying that that is wot yer doing.

C) Folks in US custody are being tortured by Americans to death and madness.

D) Using techniques honed over the last fifty years suspects in Gitmo and at black sites around the world have been kept in states of sensory deprivation fer hundred of days, been frozen, been sleep deprived, beaten, raped, drugged, tased, had their genitals shocked, been burned by cigarettes and cigars, and oh yes, waterboarded.

The AQ are pussies compared to the CIA. Most of the AQ's torture victims don't last the night. That would be heaven to the folks in Gitmo and around the world in them black sites. If people do have their hearts go out or other vital organs fail it is explained as being a result of pre-existing condition so that everybody's ass is covered in Bushit legalise.

Gitmo is turning into an insane asylum and still Spud comes to blog-world and reads crap like...

Compared to what they do, it's a very civil technique to get INTEL from the harden ones.

Yo, Mike the ChickenHawk...

Here's a Canadian quarter from Spud...

* flip *

Go buy yerself a clue, ass-wipe.

Be Well.

PS: Well THAT was fun!

/stage left.

Relativism is the conflation of "waterboarding" with thumbscrews and disembowelment.

~Inch Mao

Spud would give you a lesson in Moral Relativism here but first Mao has to haff the first clue as to wot "Moral" means before Spud could then go onto the "Relativism" part.

If that glorious day ever comes when you actually get that together do tell Spud and we'll continue on with yer lessons.

Till then?

Be Well.

/Really gone now!

Which is it tirantito? You a faggot, or an internet threatener?

Seems like an "internet threatener" is the guy who issues the challenge to Step over here and make me.

One of the reasons the internet is a such a marvelous vehicle is that it absolves people like you from having to suffer any physical consequences from issuing challenges like:

Step over here and make me.

Believe me, I'd love to "step over there and make you".

But I can't.

So I simply take solace in the fact that I'd fuck your old ass up if I could.

I thought Mooman was bad

Awww... I am flattered. Lisa mentioned me. Heh heh

I would be upset, but considering the source I will just have to chuckle at the pathetic nature of her obsession.

The People's Progressive Democrat Party.

Don't profane the otherwise noble term by using it to label shit.

It already does label shit. But that is just a small detail.

Using techniques honed over the last fifty years suspects in Gitmo and at black sites around the world have been kept in states of sensory deprivation fer hundred of days, been frozen, been sleep deprived, beaten, raped, drugged, tased, had their genitals shocked, been burned by cigarettes and cigars, and oh yes, waterboarded.

Good.

That's what I pay my bureaucrats for.

Using techniques honed over the last fifty years suspects in Gitmo and at black sites around the world have been kept in states of sensory deprivation fer hundred of days, been frozen, been sleep deprived, beaten, raped, drugged, tased, had their genitals shocked, been burned by cigarettes and cigars, and oh yes, waterboarded.

Hrm... interesting. Source for that?


Oh... it was Spud. Nevermind. Easily dismissed. I thought it was someone that actually knew what they were talking about. :-)

A) Waterboarding is torture.

Not really.

B) The US under Bush has devolved into a stinking torture state thinking that, like Iran and China and too many other places on this earth, it's okay to torture as long as you keep on denying that that is wot yer doing.

China sends her citizens to labor camps for dissent--like having more than one child.

Iran hangs her homosexuals and stones her adulterers.

You're one fucked up, sick, and intellectually bankrupt motherfucker to have to default to a silly comparison with "The US under Bush" to either.

Aren't you, Spud?

Why don't you "re-enter Stage Left" and defend some of this irresponsible bullshit you pass off as informed commentary.

La Pomme de Terre parfaite dit, "Taddles and Mao who should be brothers in arms..."

I think the name "Democratic" stinks to high heaven, and has been turned into a pile (gang) of steaming feces! No one can instruct me to use another word to describe them; e.g., that they are "Democrats" because otherwise it would sully the name: "Democratic"! I don't care if you are to the right of Genghis Khan!

"Spud begins to get the idear that if ya locked either of them in a room by themselves they would begin arguing with themselves within the first fifteen minutes and would no doubt go on to try and beat themselves up lacking anyone else around to bear the brunt of their aggresive tendencies."

I think that is your trouble, Mr. Perfection. You think so well of yourself, that you haven't a doubt in the world that anything you "think" is correct and accurate from the outset ... a flaming Canadian narcissist. No worries that you would EVER argue with yourself ...

"B.F. Skinner woulda had a field day with you two freaks, ya know that?"

You were born in-the-box, son, don't kid yourself.

"... Waterboarding is torture. The US under Bush ..."

See? You completely ignored my comment, on point, and merely repeat your one-sided claim.

History started for you at the outset of the Iraq conflict ... isn't that correct, Mr. Self-Blinded partisan jerk?

No need to consider US practices in CIA interrogations since WWII ... isn't that right, Mr. Foreign Agent Man? Or, for that matter ANY Western civilization's efforts to win over tyranny and repression of freedom, correct?

"... Folks in US custody are being tortured by Americans to death and madness."

Just everyday old "folks", right, Mr. Foreign Propagandist? Nothing like murdering terrorists who strap explosives on their own children and send them in as a sacrifice to Allah? Just "folks" ...

" Using techniques honed over the last fifty years ..."

Thousands of years! Why the simpleton Kelts were children in torture before the Romans arrived! How much more subtle we have become! Now, there is no more need to maim and kill to extract information -- all you have to do is drown them, over-and-over until they confess ...

Then, the real subtlety begins: DRUGS are used to verify the truth of the "confessions" ... and madness takes place ...

But, the drugs are "OKAY" by you, aren't they?

BTW, that's why "we" don't want "you" to run this country -- you are a flaming coward who can't face reality and imminent threat to millions, because you are so intent on protecting #1, should you ever find yourself in a postion to withhold information that could save American lives ...

You're only "good" for Canadian defense and security ... and actually want the USA to be defenseless and insecure ... scum sucking Canadian meddler in US politics!

Someone too stupid to stop says, "Seems like an "internet threatener" is the guy who issues the challenge to Step over here and make me."

How would you make me stop calling Democratics, democratics? By stepping over here and convincing me of the correctness of your commentary, or by ...

"I'll fuck your old ass up."

I think you are a bit out of your league, kid ... but you could email me for my address ... and convince me otherwise ...

"Relativism is the conflation of "waterboarding" with thumbscrews and disembowelment."

Actually, relativism is claiming one form of torture is better than another form of torture (e.g.: it is okay) "because we're on the right side."

"Not really."

Oops:

Waterboarding detainees amounts to illegal torture in all circumstances. To suggest otherwise - or even to give credence to such a suggestion - represents both an affront to the law and to the core values of our nation."

Sincerely,
Rear Admiral Donald J. Guter, United States Navy (Ret.)
Judge Advocate General of the Navy, 2000-02
Rear Admiral John D. Hutson, United States Navy (Ret.)
Judge Advocate General of the Navy, 1997-2000
Major General John L. Fugh, United States Army (Ret.)
Judge Advocate General of the Army, 1991-93
Brigadier General David M. Brahms, United States Marine Corps (Ret.)
Staff Judge Advocate to the Commandant, 1985-88

Hans, it is "illegal torture" to put handcuffs on prisoners too tightly -- but, when did they stop doing that?

The effort to criticize "torture" in this instance is PARTISANSHIP and not in any way an expression of human compassion for "detainees".

There were CIA prisons during the Bosnian adventure to end genocide -- where were your articles and propaganda against waterboarding, then?

It was NON-EXISTENT because you didn't give a rat's ass if genocidal Europeans got themselves drowned a few times ... just so you could win a war for your president!!!

Now, here you are trying to lose a war to Islamic terrorists, so your party of feces eating gangsters can WIN!

Hypocrites! That's what the Democratic party consists of -- World Class Hypocrites!

Meanwhile, half these yahoos have strangled themselves to "get-off" better ... scum ....

Who would Jesus waterboard? None one that I know of. Of course, he wasn't a realist.

Someone referenced hypocrisy above. Well, time to clarify what and Whom you really beleive lest someone apply that term to you.

Oh, Mao---Just curious---Chertoff made a play for your land or that of your friends yet?

The hypocracy of these people has no limit. For them to have known about this and to not have said anything until they thought it would benefit them politically. These people have *no* integrity. Why should we trust any of them? And don't think for a minute that if they would divorce themselves from their integrity to political gain that they would not hesitate to through each of us under the bus if they thought it would be to their gain.

"Hypocracy"[sic] is the form of government being promoted by Democratics ...

While this story has made for some interesting, uh, back and forth... does anyone think our "investigative media" will think to ask Pelosi and the Dems exactly what they saw/heard, when they heard it, and WHY they didn't voice objection at that time? And, if they went along with it back then, why the later change of heart... unless it's politically motivated?

You can bet if the parties were reversed (Dem controlled POTUS & Congress and Rep minority) there would be some serious questioning going on.

Assuming there is no hard questioning of Dems based on this thread's article, will any DR lefty acknowledge a lib media bias? Ever? Under any circumstances?

Posted by OohRah at 2007-12-10 07:30 AM | Reply |

Lib media bias is absolute crap. I know some of you are too biased to notice, some of you have arguments that depend too heavily on the supposed media bias....but the so called liberal media has given a mountain of free passes to the republicans. Now why the hell would they do that?? Why dont you ever bother to explain that shit??This isn't liberal media, its Capitalist media.

Some day you guys will realize that the bias you see has nothing to do with republican/democrat... it has everything to do with money and influence. Or more to the point, what they can sell. If they got a choice between airing the bathroom trollings of Larry Craig, or going on about obscure shit in congress most people don't even understand, they are going with stupid because that is the shit that sells papers.

I'm not gonna say there isn't your typical garden variety liberal/conservative media bias running around, but you guys try and take the argument way too far. Quite literally it has become if it disagrees with you, it must be liberal media bias. And then you completely ignore the apparent conservative media bias. The news is either lying to you or it isn't. Get off the fence and figure it out. Should we assume every story that comes out negative about dems is untrue because of that liberal media bias??!?!

Fox News ain't #1 because they of they're excellence in reporting of truth. They're #1 because the shit isn't boring. And its typically kept to a level of intrigue your average bible belter can understand. If this doesn't get widley reported is because as a story, it sucks ass, and would take a page or more to explain.

Hypocrites! That's what the Democratic party consists of -- World Class Hypocrites!

That should have been the title of this thread. Instead it turned out to be another attack on repubs for exactly what the dems knew and seemingly approved of 5 years ago.

I love the faux outrage on behalf of certain lib bag lickers here though.

It is great to watch.

This really is not surprising, but we'll all just keep pretending that our respective parties are somehow more moral than the other.

In the waning days of WWII, the Mustang and Thunderbolt drivers---bereft of targets opportunities due to a decimated Luftwaffe---were just assigned 50 x 50 mile grids within the German countryside and told to fly them at low level and strafe anything that moved.

Posted by Pinche_Mao

But........But... didn't we have a democrat as president then and not a republican? Waterboarding became torture when Bush took office in 2001. Unser BJ Willie it wasn't torture, it was just another way to get information from the enemy.

"I'll fuck your old ass up.

Posted by Pinche_Mao"


"Bad.

Posted by Pinche_Mao at 2007-12-10 02:22 AM"

Look out, Taddly! As soon as Pinche gets a piece of ass from one of the many pieces of ass whom he works with, and after he pulls his own teeth and sets a few of his own fractures, he's gonna hitch up his grey mare and hippity hop over to teach you some manners.

Taddly offered his email to you, Pinche, to set up a, uhh, meeting. Looks like you must have "other priorities," or something?

"Of course, like any normal person -- nobody on their right mind would ever look at someone being waterboarded by the CIA and say "That's inhuman. That's torture""
--BOWA

As fun as it is to point out the hypocrisy of the Democrats, especially to self righteous Democrat bloggers, can you admit that so far, everyone who has credibility on the subject is saying that it is torture?

I'll admit that on the surface, the controversy seems blown out of proportion. But I haven't heard of any former POWs or JAGs coming out and saying that waterboarding is NOT torture. In fact, just opposite. The only people saying that it isn't torture are bureaucrats, politicians, and talk show hosts. And people who just look at the surface. Better to go with the experts, right?

A wet towel or douchebag can perform the same function. Pelosi just gets it

I'm recommending that all Dems be waterboarded starting with "Stretch Pelosi".This way they can have a better understanding of waterboarding. Lets include "Walking Eagle" also.

Getting back to the point of the article, it would be extremely interesting to have someone research what comments, if any, that Pelosi et al. made about waterboarding after they had been briefed on it, oh, about 30 times, and did not voice an objection.

Hypocrisy pretty much sums it up...Politics at its finest.

Strangely enough, this is kind of like when Larry Craig, etc. decry homosexuality and gay rights when they are, in fact, gay.

"And don't think for a minute that if they would divorce themselves from their integrity to political gain that they would not hesitate to through each of us under the bus if they thought it would be to their gain.

Posted by sawdust at 2007-12-10 09:50 AM"

Given the fact that you are a complete nobody Sawdust, I would have to agree with you.

Tater. I'm still waiting on the answer after you ditched the thread from having real questions thrown in your face.


The main topic is Global Warming. My question to you and the others who think that mankind has something to do with Global Warming is,

"Why do we have conferences and summits in remote locations?"

Another question is,

"What good is a gigantic concert across seven continents really doing to the environment?"

When you give me an answer, try to make it something thought out and logical. Not "Because they can afford it." If the purpose of all of this is to really create change, lead by fucking example.

I never realized we had so many wimps in the military service.

"Contrast that to the real torture"

Waterboarding was "real torture" during WWII. It's been "real torture" since. And it's still "real torture" to 4 retired JAGs, who call apologists like you "an affront to the core values of our nation".

You're part of the problem.

"One gets the feeling that Lefties"
--BOWA

Former POWs and JAGs are saying this is torture. I look at it and don't think it's a big deal, but then people who would actually know something about it sing a different tune, and I listen.

Besides, your defense of waterboarding distracted from a perfectly good opportunity to slam democrats on hypocrisy.

"anybody can see with their own two eyes that waterboarding is not torture"

Tell that to the four retired JAGs who call you and people like you "an affront to the core values of this nation".

"...that you and many others can't tell the difference between the two"

Of course I can. Just like I can tell the difference between stealing ten million dollars and a hundred million dollars.

Where we part is you don't think taking the ten million is thievery, because someone, somewhere else, took a hundred million. That excuse didn't work in second grade, and it doesn't work now.

That's why you're part of the problem. Lesser thievery is still thievery. Lesser evil is still evil. And lesser torture is still torture.

I feel like the boy in the "Emperors News Clothes" -- anybody can see with their own two eyes that waterboarding is not torture. Pouring a cup of water over the face of someone strapped to a board is not torture.

Yer not the little boy in that story, Bowa.

Yer the naked Emperor.

Aint you gettin' a li'l chilly by now?

Waterboarding is torture and has been torture fer a couple of millenia by this point.

Combine it with extended sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, drugs, beatings, "stress position fer hours on end, etc etc ad nauseum and it will get folks to tell ya wotever they think will make the pain go away.

The truth or lies or wotever pops into their head, they will say or sign anything to make it stop.

If you are trying to determine the truth it aint all that effective.

If you are trying to install fear and cause a global backlash?

There ya got a little bit better results.

Here's a wot if...

Wot if the AQ or the insurgents in Iraq or Afghanistan start picking up troops they capture in raids and start waterboarding them and putting those images on camera and then sending them to Al-Jazeera TV. Do you think American teevee stations would play those tapes fer American audiences?

Would they think it was torture?

Deth knows the answer to that question but'll ask Bowa just fer a larf.

A hollow laff but a laff nonetheless.

Be Well.

Now you're HERE, Spudnut. Take your anti-U.S. garbage to some other board. I'm sure that Al Jazeera would just love to have some poetic, third person-writing, pompous ass trying to patronize the members of THEIR board. Keep your Canadian thoughts and preferences to yourself.

Wot if the AQ or the insurgents in Iraq or Afghanistan start picking up troops they capture in raids and start waterboarding them

I'm sure those troops would be very grateful-- after all waterboarding is not torture and leaves no lasting damage -- on the other hand the real torture www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/
years/2007/
0524072torture1.html that AQ and the inusrgents regularly engage in involves dismmemberment, gouging out eyes, drilling, burning with blow torches etc. Oh an lets not forget dragging our troops through the streets tied to a bumper of a car or beheading them.

You Lefties never say one thing to criticize AQ over that.

Anyone for waterboarding is for torture. As for is it torture? I listen to the opinions of interrogation experts who say it is torture. Do we want to become who we are fighting? If you think waterboarding is not torture then the bad guys are winning. The Dems who knew should resign, or at least in the next election be voted out of office.
Anyone for torture is anti-American. Repug or Dem.

Bowa-
re: It only became "torture" when it became a pawn in the Democrats attacks on Bush.

Torquemada thought differently, as did the prosecutors at Nuremberg.

The very idea that the new defintion of torture is "what we don't do" is repugnant to any sentient human being, but I suppose that's where we are.

I'm going to lunch.

"Keep your Canadian thoughts and preferences to yourself.

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2007-12-11 12:55 PM"

Yeah, Spud - don't try to make Jestgettin think. It makes his bag of rocks hurt.

Pouring a cup of water over somebodys face strapped to a board for a few seconds ...

Bowa, if you really think that this is a true description of waterboarding you are more of a fool than I thought. Delusional, as so often.

But the actual technique itself, which anyone can take a look at -- doesn't resemble anything close to torture.

Can you actually taste the lies as they fall off yer tongue, Bowa?

"Which anyone can look at"?

Which would explain why America keeps these guys out in Gitmo or in Black Sites around the world that we wouldn't even know about if the information hadn't been leaked by patriots who were sickened by wot BushCo were turning the USA into.

All open and above BOARD, is it?

Just admit it, Bowa, you think it is torture and yer okay with it.

That's yer position and it's one that yer not even honest enuff to admit to.

You know it's torture but you think that everytime you repeat yer Big Lie that it somehow gains greater credibilty.

Hitler had similar ideas.

Hitler was wrong.

Torture is wrong.

You, Bowa, are wrong.

Navy Vet is Right!

Anyone for torture is anti-American. Repug or Dem

~Navy Vet

Strewth!

Be Well.

Yeah, Spud - don't try to make Jestgettin think. It makes his bag of rocks hurt.

~mOntecOre

And the smoke that pours out his ears on those infrequent occasions where he does attempt it, is absolutely appalling.

PU! :(

Be Well.

PS: Luffed the Colts Quote from '99.

Nothin' but net!

"Yeah, Spud - don't try to make Jestgettin think. It makes his bag of rocks hurt."

Thinking is not required when one is exposed to Spudbutt's drivel. Upon exposure to one of his posts it's like raising the top slice of bread and finding that you have a shit sandwich before you.

"PU! :("

Right! It's YOUR sandwich you're smelling.

I'm surprised that MONTECORE appreciates your kindergarten anti-U.S. musings. Is HE a Canadian too that he feels he has to defend you?

jestgettinalong= Anti-American neo-con who wants us to be the same as our enemy.
Move to China if you like torture so much. I despise anyone who wants to drag this great country down to the level of countries like Nazi Germany and the old Soviet Union. Turn on 24 and go back to fantasyland, the real world wants you to leave.

jestgettinalong= Anti-American neo-con who wants us to be the same as our enemy.
Move to China if you like torture so much. I despise anyone who wants to drag this great country down to the level of countries like Nazi Germany and the old Soviet Union. Turn on 24 and go back to fantasyland, the real world wants you to leave.

Posted by navyvet50 at 2007-12-11 01:50 PM

Just how would you obtain intel from a captured militant? It is quite comical nobody wants to talk about the results of this effective practice. Did it not lead to the mastermind of 9-11? Has not every interrogator stated lives have been saved and that useful information was obtained?

"Anti-American neo-con who wants us to be the same as our enemy.
Move to China if you like torture so much."

Who said I like torture? AND...I'm a long way from being a Bush fan. I just don't like some pompous Canadian bashing the U.S. and U.S. citizens. As a "NavyVet" I thought you might understand that, being a retired navy person myself.

Just how would you obtain intel from a captured militant?

Folk in the field say that they are satisfied with the results gleaned from the legal interrogation methods as allowed by the DOD/MCJ rules.

Be Well.

Folk in the field say that they are satisfied with the results gleaned from the legal interrogation methods as allowed by the DOD/MCJ rules.

Be Well.

Posted by dethspud at 2007-12-11 01:58 PM

I see. If those practices don't work or are time consuming and it is known another attack is imminent, then what? What are they to do if the so called sanctioned interrogated methods don't produce actionable intel?

I see. If those practices don't work or are time consuming and it is known another attack is imminent, then what? What are they to do if the so called sanctioned interrogated methods don't produce actionable intel? crispee_oc
Then we cut their balls off, Jack Bauer.
Wait, this is the real world, come baaaaack Crispee.
So you are for us dragging ourselves down to the terrorist level. I bet if we cut the heads off a few of them the rest will tell us everything.
If we sink to the level of our enemies, we deserve to lose.
Only cowards support torture, so are a coward or not?

Phoney outrage...

You've got to love it... If waterboarding is so bad why didn't they say anything back then? Phoney outrage that's why... just like with Iraq, just like with Bush, just like with Imus, just like damn near every cause the Libs claim to be upset about...

Navy,
Based on your pathetic rants you don't fucking know. Why don't you man up and admit it you fucking swab instead of assuming what I believe or don't believe regarding INTERROGATION. It was a simple question I thought for a simple man. Guess I was wrong on both counts.

it is known another attack is imminent

Ah, there it is.

The "24 scenario"

The "ticking time bomb" that Alan Dershowitz luffs to bring up.

2 things here.

First, 24 is a fictional teevee show that stretches credulity beyond the breaking point with each new episode.

Second, Alan Dershowitz is a Zionist hack who tows the AIPAC party line.

This scenario of which you speak has never occured.

And even if it did...

And even if you did pick up a dedicated martyr seeking terrorist who actually did know where the bomb was and the secret code to stop it he would just lie to interogators and send them off on a wild goose chase while the clock continued to count down to zero.

Life aint a movie or a teevee show.

Be Well.

This scenario of which you speak has never occured.


How do you know? How do you know someone hasn't been beating into talking and that talk stopped an iminent attack.

They wouldn't tell the public about it, because liberals fuckstains like yourself would look past the thwarted attack, and try to bring charges up against the heroes who got the information.

So how do you, Dethdouche know that the "ticking bomb" scenario has never occured?

After that Abu Zubaydah began providing interrogators with information that led to the disruption of "maybe dozens" of planned attacks, Mr Kiriakou said.

Because torture works...

The reason they tell us it doesn't is because if they admitted using these tactics and more, liberals in this country would arrest them and then there would be no one left to interrogate prisoners...

Because torture works...

The reason they tell us it doesn't is because if they admitted using these tactics and more, liberals in this country would arrest them and then there would be no one left to interrogate prisoners...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2007-12-11 02:45 PM

I thought that waterboarding wasn't torture.

Because torture works...

~Rob the Nazi Asshole

Do ya iron them brownshirts yerself or do you send them out?

Be Well.

PS: Torture can occasionally achieve actionable intel but in the main it is WORSE THAN USELESS.

Spud would explain that but Rob won't listen so wot's the point?

Spud's off to eat lunch now

/stage left.

After that Abu Zubaydah began providing interrogators with information that led to the disruption of "maybe dozens" of planned attacks, Mr Kiriakou said.

Abu Zubaydah was one of two detainees whose interrogation was captured in video recordings that the CIA later destroyed.

Uh-huh. Sure he did. He told them wot they wanted to hear. That's why they kept the vid. You can no more prove that these "maybe dozens" of planned attacks were real than Spud can prove they were made up.

Back to square one.

Be Well.

Uh-huh. Sure he did. He told them wot they wanted to hear.

Posted by dethspud at 2007-12-11 03:11 PM

Funny how what he told them was accurate and proved to be actionable intel.But why let the facts get in the way of ripping America from the inside out.

"He'll know that we know he lied. "

Yes, but...

If it turns out he "lied", what conclusion do we draw? Waterboarding doesn't work? Or we just didn't torture him enough?

Do ya iron them brownshirts yerself or do you send them out?

Someday I hope you come across a true nazi or fascist... You'll wake up to the difference really quick...

The fact is that Nancy and a couple other dems knew about waterboarding back in 2002. The DNC then made her their majority leader, and aren't asking for her resignation now...

Any Lib crying about waterboarding from here on out is full of shit...

BUT WAS SHE AWARE OF THIS STORY....


two members of the group that looks over the pages have resigned saying that the pages are running wild and there is a report of a blowjob in a room to a page from a female page with others watching..
Now I know to the left this is just another chapter in the blowjob billy legacy.....AND ITS ONLY A BLOWJOB But I believe the girl was 16.........

so when can we expect nancy to resign over this like the dems demanded not that long ago?????????

the two allegedly resigned because the watchdog people.....DEMS NOW......withheld info or something similar.......

waiting for outrage from the left.

HELL NOT EVEN THAT>.....waiting on liberal media to cover the friggin story in the first place.....

The Dems who knew should resign, or at least in the next election be voted out of office.
Anyone for torture is anti-American. Repug or Dem.

Posted by navyvet50 at 2007-12-11 01:10 PM

I couldn't agree more with this statement. Since I am in Pelosi's district, I just hope that someone other then Cindy Sheehan runs against her.

Interestingly enough, no one picked up on ROC's Larry Craid analogy, which I thought was particularly apt: If the Dems knew about it before, and tacitly approved it by not speaking out against it, then Pelosi, Rockefeller and Graham are just as hypocritical as Craig and the rest of the Gay Old Party on their stance against homosexual rights.

Craid=Craig

Interestingly enough, no one picked up on ROC's Larry Craid analogy, which I thought was particularly apt: If the Dems knew about it before, and tacitly approved it by not speaking out against it, then Pelosi, Rockefeller and Graham are just as hypocritical as Craig and the rest of the Gay Old Party on their stance against homosexual rights.


Not really since, you see, Democrats are infalible. They can make no mistake that cannot be whitewashed with a little lack of coverage from the media.

Hey where's Danni and the rest of the gang to tell us how great it is to have these folks in charge?

Oh spud, I noticed you ducked my question once again. Good times.

Interestingly enough, no one picked up on ROC's Larry Craig analogy, which I thought was particularly apt: If the Dems knew about it before, and tacitly approved it by not speaking out against it, then Pelosi, Rockefeller and Graham are just as hypocritical as Craig and the rest of the Gay Old Party on their stance against homosexual rights

Apt? You "think" that that was an apt analogy?

Are the Dems for or against Gay Rights?

They are for them and the GOPhers are against to a degree that is unconstitutional. That is where the hypocrisy comes from. That is a most inapt analogy.

Pelosi and others knowing about the existence of a video showing waterboarding is, in yer "minds", comparable to the GOPhers who instituted and perpetuated the torture in the first place and then lied about and even to this day continue to lie about it?!

Wot kind of drugs are you on?

Don't bother askin' wotever they are they tend to melt the brain obviously and thus Spud aint interested in 'em.

Now onto Axiom's (body spray fer men) questions...

"Why do we have conferences and summits in remote locations?"

Spud already told you. The economic ones are held in remote locations in order to prevent masses of protesters showing up so the media doesn't have to actively how pissed off people are by the economic dirty tricks being played on the majority by a minority of greedy selfish concerns. The ones on the enviroment are helf all over the world because it's a globval problem. Spud also told you that this Matt Drudge-esque attempt to clutter up the issue with non-topics like this and the size of Al Gore's carbon footprints are BULLSHIT.

Next question...

Another question is,

"What good is a gigantic concert across seven continents really doing to the environment?"

They raise awareness of the problem to people confused by the cognitive dissonance sown by the millions of dollars worth of propaganda put forth every year by the well paid pseudo-scientists at Exxon, BP, Chevron etc, etc.

You know, the crap you believe in.

Happy?

Ah, good times good times. ^_^

Be Well.