He is the most incompetent pres in history period.

Biden is just a desperate failure.

'He is the most incompetent pres in history period.'

What does Jimmy Carter have to do with this?

(Other than giving Iran to the mullahs)

Biden is just a desperate failure.

2 posts. Strong work.

Bush simply goes into the "They could resume the nucular weapons program" mode, as in his Press Conference this morning... Unbelievable. As Keith Olberman commented: Lindsay Lohan could resume her Nuclear Weapons program also....

I have a nuclear weapons program...


...in my pants...

Get him Joe.

So far he's the only one who's actually come right out and said that Bush can't be trusted, but I hear no one contradicting him.

Kind of sad when your own party thinks you're a liar.

Wow, so Iran hasn't had a nuclear program from 2003 on. Perhaps Bush should take credit for that instead of going on with the bullshit line. Then again, you have to feed the 23 percenters something.

What is amazing is that the intel for Saddam's WMD intel was obviously wrong by all the BS posted..

But now the intel points to something to bash Bush with and suddently ---IT's RIGHT!!!

You can't have it both ways!

And yes--Iran talked the whole time and still does that they are wanting nukes.

What about the story a month or so ago about 3000 centrifuges. That was for a game of tittly-winks??

Iran wants to wipe out Israel and the West--the idiot talks about the 12th Imman or whatever--

And dont' think that this wasn't leaked by the cabal of liberals in the NIE.

And let's make it clear that our intel was decimated by Clinton--cutting the budget. He cut the CIA budget.

And his wifee is running and the first thing she will do is the same! Friggin Socialist--but I digress..

This is a BS something and it ain't Bush...


Murphy

why are argue the particulars, its not going to get anywhere really
intelligence surfaced, Bush foreign policy rightfully scuttled.
end of his presidency...good night

"Bush had to know"

Who cares? Does it actually still matter what he purports to be the reality of the situation anymore?

It doesn't.

He's just a stick figure of the movement. The true issue lies under the surface of this. What Bush and co hope to spin this into is irrelevant.

Reality will impose itself.

Regards,
etc.

What is amazing is that the intel for Saddam's WMD intel was obviously wrong by all the BS posted..

But now the intel points to something to bash Bush with and suddently ---IT's RIGHT!!!

What's readily apparent about this NIE is that it wasn't cherry-picked to come up with the NeoCon "Right" answer. If the CIA had been allowed to just review the intel and make a non-partisan, data-driven analysis in the case of Iraq, we might not be stuck there now.

And once and for all, yes, Clinton cut all kinds of things. The Cold War was over, there was a massive structure of anti-Soviet defense that simply wasn't needed. He SHOULD have kept more of an eye on Afghanistan - but guess what, Bush Sr. was the one that dropped that ball, can't entirely blame Clinton for everything.

Besides, Bushling had 2 years and a blank check to get the intel right before he invaded, but he wasn't interested. He just did whatever Uncle Dick told him to.

You know, Bush was President in 2003. It is possible that the fact the US military was on the border with Iran could have caused them to shut down there nuke program. And it is also possible that it took 4 or 5 years to sure it was shut down. Good news is still good news....right?

If its on the internet it has to be true....right?

Listen to these righties spin!!!


The fact is that either Bush lied and damaged US credibility (and that of the new French President) further, or he is dangerously incurious and ill-informed, and the object of disdain by his own intelligence people, who didn't even tell him the news.

When told that there were "new develepments", the little turd didn't even ask what they were.

This is a pathetic joke at this point, and the spin is just plain funny now.

And Bush said the new estimate "doesn't do anything to change my opinion about the danger Iran poses to the world -- quite the contrary."

Glad you are enjoying it.

The legacy of George W. Bush bites the dust.

You can see the stress on his face as he tries to hang on.

You can see him tasting the bile.

So, now he needs a new legacy and he needs it fast.

Enter now the Israeli Palistinian conflict. If he can just get them to kiss and make up, maybe he'll salvage something of his presidency.

Better, smarter, more honest men have tried and failed. But who knows. There might be a miracle in Bush's future.

Right now George Bush is so desperate that he'll settle for a staged photo-op.

The meltdown of the President is a terrible thing to watch.

This is a BS something and it ain't Bush...


Murphy

Posted by MURPHY

self-retorting flag

If Bush isn't actually stoopid, he should be given a special Oscar because he's just surpassed Dustin Hoffman's performance in "The Rain Man."

George W. Bush- terrorist, mass murderer, war criminal.
The CIA was complicit in the 2000 election, Cheneys good buddies.
Bin Laden IS a CIA operative. For 20 years.
And yes, I do beleive that numerous elected/appointed representatives of the US government carried out 9/11, with the help of foreign terrorists/governments.

George W. Bush- terrorist, mass murderer, war criminal.
The CIA was complicit in the 2000 election, Cheneys good buddies.
Bin Laden IS a CIA operative. For 20 years.
And yes, I do beleive that numerous elected/appointed representatives of the US government carried out 9/11, with the help of foreign terrorists/governments.

Posted by gitmboy at 2007-12-05 07:48 AM | Reply |



do do do do do doo...

(theme to the twilight zone.)
because good sir, you are firmly entrenched in that zone)

maybe tomorrow you can tell us how the little green men from mars are doing........

exit to the theme from x files.

well biden always seemed okay to me.....at least for a dem this side of joe lieberman......

but this is silly.......SO THE HELL WHAT if he knew anything.....as was said yesterday.,,,,,this cant put us off our guard because they can still pass info on.......and anyone who thinks that this lets iran off the hook for being supporters of terrorism is a fool and endangering millions of people.....
and as far as the intelligence community.....it takes a long time to get something like that on its feet after 8 years of clinton dismantling it and some dems.....frank church and others calling for the end of the cia and things like that....
and you can call it a clinton deflection if you want, but it wont change the fact.......
no matter what you think of what I just wrote, the staunchest lib here can see that this doesnt mean that we just leave them alone or rush to their arms......

"the staunchest lib here can see that this doesnt mean that we just leave them alone or rush to their arms......"

Of course we shouldn't. This just tells us we need to keep the pressure on. But what we don't need to do is continue to beat the war drum. Instead we need to intensify diplomacy and negotiation.

There is little doubt the Cheney and his cabal of neocons were pushing hard for military action against Iran. And we all certainly know Big Dick isn't above misrepresenting facts to get his way.

The good news here is that most of the 'cons are gone and Cheney is pretty much isolated and unable to do more harm than he already has.

Oh, and BL2 - it DOES matter whether or not he knew the information in this NIE (and he did).

We learned our lesson from the "imminent danger of attack" from Iraq, and the "looming mushroom cloud" fear mongering.

Up until a few days ago Bush was trying the same tactic with the "World War III" rhetoric. He knew full well that was a bunch of crap. And now we know it too.

but this is silly.......SO THE HELL WHAT if he knew anything.....as was said yesterday


It demonstrates once again that he is a liar and is willing to sacrifice US credibility to support his ill-advised policies.

If he is not a liar, then he must be held in utter contempt by his own intel people, since htey didn't even bother to tell him.

My vote? the obvious one: he's a lying sack of shit who nonetheless deserves a fair trial.

When our own military (probably) makes sure the president and his cabinet are revealed as liars, when all of our allies now no longer trust anything out of the liar in chief's mouth, when even Republicans are now forced to recognize that we were lied into Iraq and almost Iran too.....it is time for Pelosi to put "It" back on the table.
It is time for Conyers to get moving on Kucinich's impeachment bill.

President Bush reaffirming the lying, arrogant, war mongering, pigheaded piece of shit he is.

Same Bush...different day

Firstly, there is nothing concrete about any of the intel. It's only opinions.

Secondly, I'd say Biden should be brought up on charges for publicly attempting to defame a sitting US President without providing evidence and in time of war.

A disgusting breed, liberal democrats have become.

I'm sure Amadeinajhad is smiling broadly. If not for subversive liberal democrats we would be much further toward success in the GWOT.

When Iran starts blowing things up or selling the stuff off to others who will I'm sure everyone will accept your apologies. Traitorous scum.

Remember... Its not if Iran gets nuclear weapons that will cause WW-III....its if they get the knowledge on
how to make a nuclear bomb.

President G W Bush.... The Republican Moral Conservative Parties Poster Child...and they just can't get enough of this flying Fuck.

"A disgusting breed, liberal democrats have become."

"If not for subversive liberal democrats..."

"Traitorous scum."

You need a new shtick Kris. Tadowe already has a copyright on that one. You'll be receiving a Cease & Desist order shortly.

Unless... hmmmm.

Who would have thought Tadowe could be cloned?

"Secondly, I'd say Biden should be brought up on charges for publicly attempting to defame a sitting US President without providing evidence and in time of war."

I'm thinking that might require the WH to release a whole lot of information during a trial that would probably exonerate Biden and result in indictments of "high ranking" (mis)administration officials.

And we couldn't have that now, could we?

"Who would have thought Tadowe could be cloned?

Posted by danni"

Well you know every time Tad has 2 dumps hanging over him he either disappears, or cuts way way back on his rhetoric. Of course he shrieks he doesn't care about dumps.

What better way to get around that than to create an alter-ego.

Sort of like Wayland and Madame.

What is GWOT?

If it stand for Global War on Terror, then I'd like to know who we're at war with.

You say the Terrorists. Ok, then what country do we attack and win the war. Terrorists have no country, they are criminals that murder innocent people. Call it what it really is a Police Action.

Even in Korea and Vietnam we were fighting against a country. North Korea, North Vietnam.

If we fight a war we fight against another country, there's somebody that surrenders. Isn't that how you win a war?

SO THE HELL WHAT if he knew anything.....
Posted by bushlovertwo

Yes, no use basing our foreign policy on facts now is there? He should just plunge the whole world into war on a "gut feeling".

Hey Kris

October 15, 2007
Will Hillary Clinton Bomb Iran?

That is a little bit outdated considering what we now know.

"It is the country that most practices state-sponsored terrorism, and it uses its surrogates to supply explosives that kill U.S. troops in Iraq."

That is what they are selling anyway, though the more intelligence that gets revealed the weaker that argument becomes. The claims that Iran is responsible for the deaths of American troops is just that....a claim...not supported by evidence.
Seems that the domonization of Iran is part of an overall strategic agenda of Bush and the neocons which is now beginning to unravel due to the fact that intelligence doesn't support any of their "claims."

"Will Hillary Clinton Bomb Iran?
That certainly appears to be what she's saying in Foreign Affairs this month:"

Which was, as you know, before she knew what the President has known for months. Right?

BLSHIT2


Frank church and others calling for the end of the cia and things like that....

He must have some voice He's been DEAD for 24 YEARS!


SO THE HELL WHAT if he knew anything

LOL Superb defense what more can you say......



this doesnt mean that we just leave them alone or rush to their arms......

Indeed and obvious but Dick and Shrub thankfully just lost his ability to start a third Clusterfuck.

****** I have a nuclear weapons program...
...in my pants...
Posted by ness_gadol *****

........the Titan rocket ?.......

This is a BS something and it ain't Bush...

Murphy

POSTED BY MURPHY


Murphy without doubt the last one standing who would actually vote for Boy Failure again.

I wonder if Barbara's middle name is Murphy?

***** Biden: Bush Had to Know ******

......it's one thing to be thought a liar....it's another to open your mouth and erase all doubts.....

What Bush and Cheney came to know is what the NIE pointed out, that inspections work, something they had denied from the beginning.

The Dems in Congress, including Clinton, are the ones who fought the admin to get them to accept inspections and they would not do so.

Wow. Reading through the thread, deflections dating back 30 years.

Bush apologists forget that had it not been for the 2006 turnover of Congress we might be at war with Iran too. With all the cooked and cherry picked intel that led to the Iraq War, bombing Iran and further miring ourselves in the ME would have been a no brainer for Bush and Co. No braining is the modus operandi of this administration.

This revelation of intelligence and thus the decrease in liklihood of war with Iran has caused a sigh of relief from our great, great grand children who would be stuck with the bill for it.

This revelation proves that the Australian people are smarter than the American people.

Bush = lying piece of incompetent shit. ITMFA.

The fact that now our intelligence community concludes that Iran hasn't had a nukular program for several years certainly proves the value of Bush and Rice's brilliant foreign policy of not talking to Iran.
It certainly gives more credibility to Bush's original statement branding Iran as part of the "Axis of Evil."
It certainly justifies the thinly veiled threats against Iran which have probably encouraged Iran to help us calm things in Iraq...I mean...why wouldn't they want to help a nation that is threatening to bomb them????

Condoleeza Rice's complete incompetence is revealed, I do not think she can be an effective Sec. of State in the future because other nations will simply consider her to be a liar....and a liar willing to use lies as a basis for bombing.
She may find herself unwelcome in some capitals.

Danni - although I agree that Rice is utterly incompetent and generally a failure at her job, most reports indicate that she was the one pushing for going the diplomatic route with Iran, with Cheney pushing for some type of military action.

Sanantoniorogue I realize that but she still was willing to go along...probably all the way to war....when any honorable Sec. of State would have resigned. Isn't this exactly the same position that Colin Powell found himself in, and didn't he receive the same criticism???...and rightly so too.
He still isn't "rehabilitated" in my opinion and in his case the crimes of the son (Michael) are reason enough to keep Powell out of government permanently.

I see that some of you have either not taken the time to read the report I've provide for you or choose not to discuss it because it doesn't fit your political agenda.

Over the next few hours as time permits I'll challange you to think logically.

Firstly, your naivete and BDS is displayed in your failure to even recognize that Iran had and has a program to develope NW.

I'll check back in time to see if any of you will concede that fact.

Kris - let me just remind you of your very own words...

"I'm not in the mood to bat the ball back and forth regarding who did what and when.

You won't change my mind and I won't change yours."

So you only want interactive discussion when it suits you, I guess.

Be that as it may, the point isn't really that they had a program, and might (MIGHT) restart it. The point is that we were being lead to believe up until now that they WERE ACTIVELY PURSUING a nuclear weapons program. And we were told the threat was (yet again) imminent and that Iran was propelling us toward WWIII.

This report (and I read it yesterday) debunks that.

one of the most incompetent presidents in modern American history."

That's being pretty gentle on Dubya.

Ever notice how hard it is to say Buah Administration and intelligence in the same sentence, without breaking out laughing?

Bush press conference: a noun, a verb and a lie.
(Sorry Joe)

SO THE HELL WHAT if he knew anything.....as was said yesterday.,,,,,this cant put us off our guard because they can still pass info on.......and anyone who thinks that this lets iran off the hook for being supporters of terrorism is a fool and endangering millions of people.....
Posted by bushlovertwo at 2007-12-05 07:57 AM

YEAH!

As if "knowing something" of which concerns the wellbeing of millions of people while forwarding rhetoric to the contrary isn't "endangering millions of people" in the end!

And nobody is letting "Iran off the hook" for anything, just removing false and misleading information (AKA a lie) from the equation.

So sad! For you! Now what will you and your fake plastic Jesus do?

The point is that we were being lead to believe up until now that they WERE ACTIVELY PURSUING a nuclear weapons program. And we were told the threat was (yet again) imminent and that Iran was propelling us toward WWIII.

This report (and I read it yesterday) debunks that.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2007-12-05 10:34 AM |

Main Entry: imminent
Pronunciation: i-m'-n'nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin imminent-, imminens, present participle of imminre to project, threaten, from in- + -minre (akin to Latin mont-, mons mountain) -- more at mount
Date: 1528
: ready to take place; especially : hanging threateningly over one's head

Please remove your BDS foggles and use no personal names or political parties as we evaluate the contents of the report.

Thanks in advance.

"Firstly, your naivete and BDS is displayed in your failure to even recognize that Iran had and has a program to develope NW."

No, actually our naivete was in forgetting that you and your gang subscribe to the . . .

"We have the God-given right to attack and destroy anyone who MIGHT do something to someone, somewhere, sometime"

. . . philosophy of governance.

Another display of your naivete and BDS is that had you been paying attention the last 6 or 9 monnths you'd recognize that actions of the administration have been pointing toward diplomacy. The US, the Eu and even Russia. Trying to get them to help us dis-encourage Iran from enriching uranium.

What is GWOT?

If it stand for Global War on Terror, then I'd like to know who we're at war with.

You say the Terrorists. Ok, then what country do we attack and win the war. Terrorists have no country, they are criminals that murder innocent people. Call it what it really is a Police Action.

Even in Korea and Vietnam we were fighting against a country. North Korea, North Vietnam.

If we fight a war we fight against another country, there's somebody that surrenders. Isn't that how you win a war?

Posted by Dragnlady

Excellent observation DLady.

You can't win a war against a philosophy.

Kinda loosely analagous to the GWOD, Global War On Drugs, only that that 'war' is being waged against the American public, with sorties being sent south of the border. This cannot be won also, but you can sure negotiate it.

"We have the God-given right to attack and destroy anyone who MIGHT do something to someone, somewhere, sometime"

. . . philosophy of governance.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2007-12-05 10:47 AM


A further example of your BDS. That's the philosophy of the enemy profoundly exhibited here on 9-11 and since then over 9,000 times accross the globe.

Do you choose to not recognize, as fact, that Iran had/has a program to build NW? Or are you championing they have a right to them?

"Another display of your naivete and BDS is that had you been paying attention the last 6 or 9 monnths you'd recognize that actions of the administration have been pointing toward diplomacy."

Er....the report says Iran ended their nukular program....in 2003.....thus the "last 6 or 9 months" really is quite irrelevant.

"Another display of your naivete and BDS is that had you been paying attention the last 6 or 9 monnths you'd recognize that actions of the administration have been pointing toward diplomacy."

That is correct. And as I have posted before, that is a result of the waning power of Cheney in the administration and the apparent prevailing of Rice's point of view.

However, as recently as last week we had both the President and Veep trumpeting the WWIII fear tactic. And it was false, false, false.

Oh, and thanks for the definition of imminent. Glad you looked it up so you could refresh your own memory of its meaning.

Of course now you remember that imminent implies immediacy and something that is likely to happen in the very near term.

Which part of the NIE do you contend suggests any such thing?

Er....the report says Iran ended their nukular program....in 2003.....thus the "last 6 or 9 months" really is quite irrelevant.

Posted by danni at 2007-12-05 10:53 AM |


You have obviously have either not read the govt. released NIE report I provided for you or your reading comprehension skills aren't cracked up to what they need to be.

Other duties call at the moment. I'll check back to see if you can concede that Iran indeed did/does have a program to develope NW.

There isn't much point in going any further until you can recognize that fact.

"Do you choose to not recognize, as fact, that Iran had/has a program to build NW? Or are you championing they have a right to them?"

Uhm, since I have said nothing even remotely resembling that I can only assume you are resorting to ascribing false positions to deflect away from the real issue.

There is no imminent threat against our country that requires action beyond continued intensive diplomacy and maintenance of pressure through sanctions. There is no WWIII waiting just around the corner and no "mushroom" cloud ready to blossom above an American city.

Our government misled us about that again. There is simply no way to get around that Kris.

"
Do you choose to not recognize, as fact, that Iran had/has a program to build NW?"

So, apparently Kris thinks a program ended in 2003 is justification for an attack in 2007-08.

Really what Kris is saying is that he will continue to defend Bush and claim that anyone who believes that the American people are entitled to a truthful justification are suffering from BDS.

Me thinks the real syndrome is SAKS and Kris seems to have it.

"Other duties call at the moment." = I need new talking points.

There is no imminent threat against our country that requires action beyond continued intensive diplomacy and maintenance of pressure through sanctions.


Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2007-12-05 11:00 AM


Ahhh, the Doctrine of the present administration.

"You have obviously have either not read the govt. released NIE report I provided for you or your reading comprehension skills aren't cracked up to what they need to be."

Wrong. The report says they halted the program 4 years ago and that it cannot be determined whether or not they intend to restart it.

"I'll check back to see if you can concede that Iran indeed did/does have a program to develope NW."

What concession? Nobody has denied they had a program in the past. They likely don't have one now, and it is unable to be determined if they intend to restart one. Period. Read the report you so proudly seem to think vindicates you.

That is, when you get back from your "other duties".

"Ahhh, the Doctrine of the present administration.

Posted by Kris_P_Bacon"

Ahhh, circular logic. Pathetic, but not unexpected.

So, apparently Kris thinks a program ended in 2003 is justification for an attack in 2007-08.



Posted by danni at 2007-12-05 11:01 AM | Reply


Either provide proof where I've stated that, EVER, or concede you are a partisan hack LIAR.

Do all teachers scare you?

"Other duties call at the moment." = I need new talking points.

Posted by danni at 2007-12-05 11:02 AM |


I'm not retired nor unemployed. Get IT?

"Do all teachers scare you?"

Funny flag for delusions of grandeur!

Wrong. The report says they halted the program 4 years ago and that it cannot be determined whether or not they intend to restart it.


Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2007-12-05 11:06 AM

Bingo! Already it doesn't carry the weight given it by many. And we're only getting started.

You might be a decent student, afterall. Once you drop partisan armor, that is.

"Do you choose to not recognize, as fact, that Iran had/has a program to build NW. There isn't much point in going any further until you can recognize that fact."

This is NOT a fact. In fact, the Estimate does clearly state that even assessments made with "high confidence" are only because they are substantiated with what the estimate deems as reliable sourcing. As far as I'm concerned, this country has had substantial intelligence gaps in regards to Iran since 1979 and as a result is unable to confidently assess the issue either for or against what the Bush administration has been trumpeting.

Much has changed since 2003. The fact that Russia has become an important player in this whole affair suggests that Iran has no need for nuclear capability as long as Russia needs them as an important regional player for their own prosperity. much ado is made about nothing in my opinion-- the real issue here should be the very real fact that Russia and Iran have become regional partners-- an allied Russia is a much more powerful weapon for teheran than any nuclear program, no matter how advanced, could EVER be.

Iran however needs the prestige of standing up to the West in order to strengthen its regional hand via Syria Hezbollah and other surrogates. Therefore, I see out administration's recent policy of threats and of harsh rhetoric only serves to further isolate our already limited intelligence capabilities as well as creating an atmosphere for a hardline Iran to thrive.

In order for that to change, we need to reassess our position in middle eastern affairs. This has nothing to do with nuclear weapons capability. as far as I'm concerned, this estimate proves nothing either for or against only how spotty our intelligence has been in regards to Iran for nearly as generation.

an allied Russia is a much more powerful weapon for teheran than any nuclear program, no matter how advanced, could EVER be.


Posted by k_g_beekeeper at 2007-12-05 11:14 AM

Bingo!!!!

The cold war was never over. Finite resources prevail.

Whom do you want to win?

bush trumpeting WW3? i do believe he was replying to a question that was asked of him,,,,and if you choose not to believe achmawhatever....then i guess your safe...i choose to believe his statements about wiping israel off the face of the map...ooops guess some forgot about that....and the bit about the centrifuges is well taken,,,they are enriching uranium....how bout this...they iran know how to build the bomb now and are just enriching uranium so they can build one? oops another dilemma....i dont know what the answer is but iran with a nuke seems to me to not be a good thing....if you think it is then please speak up and say so

I really do have some work to do.

I'll be back.

From the NIE: "High confidence generally indicates that our judgments are based on high-quality
information, and/or that the nature of the issue makes it possible to render a solid judgment.
A "high confidence" judgment is not a fact or a certainty, however, and such judgments still
carry a risk of being wrong."

therefore the statements (from the NIE):

"We assess with high confidence that until fall 2003, Iranian military entities were
working under government direction to develop nuclear weapons.
We judge with high confidence that the halt lasted at least several years"

Can both be WRONG. Thus they are not FACTS.

so Kris P, it cannot be construed as FACT, so please do not pressure people into admitting as such.

This also goes for everyone on the other side trumpeting this as proof that Iran is NOT pursuing Nukes.

so this partisan wreangling is BUNK.

What should be the real concern here should be the very real situation where Russia and Iran have allied-- this is the weapon Iran now has that is much more powerful thasn any nuke.

In my opinion, this situation is a direct result of the Bush administration's policirs since 2003.

what we need to reconsider is the power that is either given or has been taken by the president of the U S. The factsremains that the current bozo has driven the us monetary system into deep debt. He has taken a hostile position with the world and has basically said my way or the highway. He has permitted and endorsed kidnapping and torture under the label of acceptable government policy. He has show that he is a liar to the american people and he continues to threaten from a false factual base. The United states can not allow this to continue or be repeated

"Either provide proof where I've stated that, EVER, or concede you are a partisan hack LIAR."

Where is your criticism for Bush's invocation of WWIII rhetoric while pretending he believed Iran had a nukular program developing nukular weapons which we now know he didn't...unless you want to accept the other, even worse scenario, that he didn't know....which leads to justification, no stronger language necessary here, an imperative to remove him from office.
If he didn't know then he has no business being president.
His "not knowing" would though explain a little about how 9-11 was allowed to happen.
Was the word that Iran didn't have a nuclear program in a PDB?????

"i choose to believe his statements about wiping israel off the face of the map"

Exactly true. You "choose" to believe that because you "choose" not to go and real what he really did say.

Whom do you want to win?

Its not about winning. Kris P. Once it becomes simply about winning, it is simply a matter of time before this country falls completely on its ass. There's a reason that the best chess players come from Russia. This administration has been making silly little pawn moves while Russia has already castled.

That's the philosophy of the enemy profoundly exhibited here on 9-11 and since then over 9,000 times accross the globe.

Do you choose to not recognize, as fact, that Iran had/has a program to build NW? Or are you championing they have a right to them?

Posted by Kris_P_Bacon at 2007-12-05 10:53 AM

1. So, you are referring to the terrorist acts that occur in places OTHER than Iraq? Too bad we are tied up there and can't put enough resources to actually address GLOBAL terrorists. Perhaps we should identify the actual enemy as the radical Wahhabi sect ... the one that actually endorses terrorism against the US and is perpetuated by Saudi funded Madrasses. But no, instead we are stuck spending billions of dollars in Iraq.

2. Yes, Iran had a program. Bush says we need to eliminate their ability to restart it. In order to do that, we would have to assasinate every nuclear scientist in Iran and then scour the entire country looking for their notes. Great plan! Perhaps we should acknowledge that they stopped their program and use that as an entrance point for diplomacy (without threats). Yes, their president (who has far from complete authority) does make outragous comments. So does ours. I guess it is really BAD that he talks about destroying Isreal and GOOD that our president talks about regime change in Iran...and actually INVADED a country that did not pose an imminent threat.

Iran's President and our President remind me of two chimps throwing poo at each other.

"Bingo! Already it doesn't carry the weight given it by many. And we're only getting started.

You might be a decent student, afterall."

Do you really think no one can see what you're trying to do by continually moving the goal posts here? Just to be clear.

1. Nobody on here EVER said they didn't have a NW programs at one time.
2. Nobody on here EVER said they couldn't or wouldn't restart one.
3. The point was they DON'T have one now so the imminent danger and WWIII rhetoric was bogus.
4. Nobody on here EVER said we should relax and take Iran off the radar because of this NIE.

I sure hope you're not a "teacher" in the real world because in order to teach something it helps if you understand it. That may present a problem for you.

KrispeebaCOn is reverting to the circular logic the Fighty Rightys spend most of 2003 trying to explain why Iraq was an imminent threat to us even after we discovered there were no WMD.

Didn't work then, ain't working now.
yesterday I posited that there could have been two reasons why the Iranians pulled the plug on their program in 2003-fear of attack or recognition that Bush had the US military bogged down in two places and wasn't attacking anybody for a long time. I'll add a third-Iran's program was in response to Saddam's threat, and with him gone, they didn't need it and could focus their resources on cementing their role in Iraq..

"I'll add a third-Iran's program was in response to Saddam's threat, and with him gone, they didn't need it and could focus their resources on cementing their role in Iraq..

Posted by northguy3"

That's an interesting point. I hadn't really thought about it before, but it makes a lot of sense.

"Do you choose to not recognize, as fact, that Iran had/has a program to build NW? Or are you championing they have a right to them?"

But you are willing to "champion" Israel's right to a program???

But you are willing to "champion" Israel's right to a program???

Posted by danni at 2007-12-05 12:28 PM |


Yes, they are our allies and a progressive society as well, on the side of science and modernization (They're some clever folk, inventors)for the common good of mankind.

What color potato sack do you prefer?

Notice how I answered your yes or no question with a yes or no. Something so many of you are incapeable of, including your leaders, both sides.

And with that, I now concede, reading your crap for the past few weeks, you aren't worth further dialogue.

Translation = FO, midget.

It's 5'oclock somewhere. Guess where I am.

"It's 5'oclock somewhere. Guess where I am."

Well thats pretty obvious.

Denial

Beekeeper.

You're the only one on this thread that realizes the reality of this report and by doing so negating Biden's premise.

Good on ya.

"What color potato sack do you prefer?"

I prefer to keep my eyes uncovered unlike the lackeys of the right. You can put the sack over your head, if you like, and pretend that a president who contradicts the information given him by intelligence agencies and threatens a sovereign nation that has never attacked us with bombing is a sane thing to do. However in reality your transparent defense of, not the president, but your own opinions which are now obviously ridiculous when the intelligence is taken into consideration, is sort of weak.

It has become increasingly apparent that you and reality have never been properly introduced.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2007-12-05 01:22 PM


Alright, grasshopper. Let's resume. What other information have you gleended from the report I've provided you?

As Beekeeper has acknowledged this report doesn't bolster either side and none the less provides any eveidence we should drop our gaurd.

Chenny, being the rational man he is apparently chose (properly I might add) to not release it because of it's ambiguity.

The first and foremost fact that you and those like you still consider irrelevent is that Iran did/does have a program to develope or obatain NW.

Again, Until you recognize this FACT there is no reason to go any further.

Again, unless of course you are championing that they have a right to them.

Is that your position?

All of the above previously asked and answered Kris.

It would behoove you to pay more attention. But I know your type - the guy at the party/conference/staff meeting who so loves the sound of his own voice that he hears nothing else.

Again, unless of course you are championing that they have a right to them.

Is that your position?

Posted by Kris_P_Bacon at 2007-12-05 01:49 PM |


A yes, or no, is an answer.

Capeable?

I havent' seen it yet.

"Again, unless of course you are championing that they have a right to them."

The answer to your straw man is no. Of course you already knew that since nothing I (or anyone else to my knowledge)have said to date would even suggest that.

Grasping much?

Politically, it serves a large part of the president's constituency to reject the recent intelligence estimate about Iran's nuclear program. I think that is the long and short of it. Truth be damned, politics full speed ahead.

"Capeable?

I havent' seen it yet.

Posted by Kris_P_Bacon at 2007-12-05 02:08 PM"

Kris P! Time to come in for dinner! And you need to finish your spelling homework!

"As Beekeeper has acknowledged this report doesn't bolster either side and none the less provides any eveidence we should drop our gaurd."

And...in your simplistic thought process everything is "either / or". Which Democrat has suggested dropping "our guard" with Iran???
Does "keeping up our guard" necessarily include making veiled threats of bombing???
We never "dropped our guard" with the USSR but we also did everything we could to make sure we did not appear to be threatening bombing them because it would have been incendiary....as it is with Iran. The FASTEST method to be sure Iran is again trying to produce nuclear weapons....threaten to bomb or invade them.
The question really comes down to what motivation Iran has/had for wanting nukes.
Would those nukes be an effective offensive weapon in the ME with Israel already posessing more and better means of delivery???
Or would they be a defensive weapon sought by a nation who had fought a ten year war with Saddam and was now being threatened by the US who had just invaded and occupied Iran's next door neighbor.

I think a real test of support for the president among the righties.....

this time around a tax increase will be brought to pay for any war and will be primarily extracted from the wealthiest 5%, also a draft will be instituted with no deferments for those with "other priorities."

"Beekeeper.

You're the only one on this thread that realizes the reality of this report and by doing so negating Biden's premise.

Good on ya"

Biden is right, Bush is one of the most incompetent presidents in modern history. you don't need to be a liberal to recognize that.

The NIE's assessment highlights one thing: the ineptitude of this administration in its case for its 4 year ultra-militant position vis-a-vis Iran.

What the NIE addresses in regards to Iran is irrelevant. What many in this country fail to recognize is by the belligerent tone in foreign policy of this administration since 2003 and its adventure into Iraq, it has all but assured the repositioning of Russia as a bi-polar global superpower. We reap what we sow.

That alone deserves impeachement for both Cheney and Bush in my opinion.

Iran has learned wisely from Israel-- that is, they have deliberately chosen a position of ambiguity for their nuclear program-- therefore keeping their enemies off-guard. The Bush administration bit on this ambiguity and played it up for all they could, automatically assuring that if Russia ever righted itself and strengthened, their realization that since 9-11 their control of resources in the middle east were threatened, they would automatically side with Iran to create a new "detente' in the middle east. In my opinion, this week, just in case no one noticed, they did just that.

This is much a case of squeezing the boil until it erupts, and spreading the infection as a result. The US squeezed Iran and now they have to deal with an empowered Russia to boot.

no doubt pro-Israeli members of this administration helped bring this about as well. I still believe that they were the de cisive factor in swaying the administration away from the realists towards the neoconservative camp.

And now we have an emboldened Iran and especially Russia, who just so happens to have the most clever leader on the face of the planet at its lead.

Uh oh K G. I'm afraid KrustyBacon isn't going to like you anymore after that.

Uh oh K G. I'm afraid KrustyBacon isn't going to like you anymore after that

I'm just a lifelong Republican who decided one day while standing and pondering in a voting booth in early November of 2004 that enough was enough.

I pulled down the libertarian lever and walked out a different man.

Firstly, there is nothing concrete about any of the intel. It's only opinions.

Secondly, I'd say Biden should be brought up on charges for publicly attempting to defame a sitting US President without providing evidence and in time of war.

A disgusting breed, liberal democrats have become.

I'm sure Amadeinajhad is smiling broadly. If not for subversive liberal democrats we would be much further toward success in the GWOT.

When Iran starts blowing things up or selling the stuff off to others who will I'm sure everyone will accept your apologies. Traitorous scum.

Posted by Kris_P_Bacon at 2007-12-05 09:04 AM | Reply |

Can you say bias... I know I can. Fuck at least RiR was trying to back up his bias with good points. Charge biden for defaming Bush? Thats just comedy. And would make a pretty flimsy case when they show the video of bush admitting just what Biden said he did.

And the Iranian leader ought to be smiling. He may have very well ran bush around the tree on this one.

Firstly, there is nothing concrete about any of the intel. It's only opinions.

Secondly, I'd say Biden should be brought up on charges for publicly attempting to defame a sitting US President without providing evidence and in time of war.

A disgusting breed, liberal democrats have become.

I'm sure Amadeinajhad is smiling broadly. If not for subversive liberal democrats we would be much further toward success in the GWOT.

When Iran starts blowing things up or selling the stuff off to others who will I'm sure everyone will accept your apologies. Traitorous scum.

Posted by Kris_P_Bacon at 2007-12-05 09:04 AM | Reply |

You sniveling whining bitch. Shut the fuck up with your calls for a senator to be charged for pointing out the obvious. Bush can go to war without proving anything, but it AWFUL in your to have Herr Bush's words questioned? Given Bush's record when it comes to intel, why would you believe him at this point?

WHO GIVES A FUCK if Amadinejhad is smiling? You are that bitchy little kid that used to get upset and throw the game board if you lost something so trite as a board game. C'mon, admit it.

Perhaps you need the blood of several thousand more dead soldiers on your hands in order for you to be able to say you support the troops.


For someone who tries to call others 'subversive and traitorous', you sure seem to want to squash any dissent aimed towards the king with legal action.

How American of you! (that's sarcasm, retard)

Ah, Krispy_Brain_Some

Name-calling the dems so that maybe we'll forget all the Bushit.

Didn't work.

More sophomoric insults from a freshman intellect.
Go back to your GameBoy. Mom will tell you when to eat.

Reports are Cheney knew about this for over a year. If Bush didn't, one has to ask the question, "why is the VP running the country'?

Bush simply goes into the "They could resume the nucular weapons program" mode, as in his Press Conference this morning... Unbelievable. As Keith Olberman commented: Lindsay Lohan could resume her Nuclear Weapons program also....

Posted by sitdown at 2007-12-04 11:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yeah! It's not like they're North Korea and promised to give up pursuit of nuclear weapons.

Biden is considered the dumbest senator in congress.

Frank church and others calling for the end of the cia and things like that....

He must have some voice He's been DEAD for 24 YEARS!


uh excuse me....but lets remember once again......american history didnt start in 2000 with the election of bush.........he was on a committe that was HEAVILY weighted by democrats who were all over weakening more than one agency....

it was during the clinton years of tearing apart so much of the intelligence community because of the end of the cold war.....
and THOSE chickens may be coming home to roost.




excuse me but I may have not seperated the two items enough in the post.............

at least sanantone recognized that we shouldlt let our guard down.....but with this......how long will it be before the liberals start talking about achmadenijad(sp) in the same glowing and loving way they talk about chavez and then call us stupid for calling that spade a spade.........


of course WHAT IF THEY ARE WRONG AND WE ARE RIGHT>....
how many people will die if we are right and how many MILLIONS could die if you are wrong..

and someone mentioned bush's legacy........
AS RUSH SAID...........that will be written by someone who isnt alive yet.........so just stand by........

Of course, the wisdom of a Houston Conservative:
"AS RUSH SAID.........."

That tells any cogent reader all they need to know.

The NIE that was released only included information that could be disclosed to the public.

That information shows Iran is NOT a threat to National Security.

Now, the NIE part that is sealed and cannot be shared with the public says the exact opposite.




Now, this may sound ridiculous, but there is no way to prove or disprove it. If the Senate is allowed INTEL that the public isn't and the INTEL says IRAN is really, really bad but the Intelligence agencies suggest disclosing to the public than Iran is not so terrible, how could the Senate disclose the contradiction. It's a game of propaganda that the Gov't may have to play for advantage.

Do you really trust the intelligence agencies that much? Do you really believe that they are presenting information like this, easily available to our nation's enemies, without thinking about the reaction/response?

We have to take the NIE as fact as much as we have to take the 9/11 commission's findings (or lack thereof).

Bush no like facts. Bush like feeling in gut when war start. Bush go play now.----Dubya

Was Key Intel for NIE Planted by Iran?
Ed Lasky

Given that the Iranians knew we were trying to uncover as much information as we could regarding their nuclear program, is it to be believed that they were incapable of planting written notes and engaging in over the air conversations that would mislead America?

Recall, that before the Iraq War, Colin Powell played a tape of Iraqis discussing what was believed to be WMD. Surely, the Iranians knew we were eavesdropping. Just as Saddam Hussein misled observers regarding his nuclear program to scare off his foes, the Iranians could very well be doing the reverse-creating a false picture to disarm its opponents.
An Iranian source was also credited with bringing documents to the attention of Western authorities. The possibility of a double agent is explored here. A similar human source, Curveball, gave us false information regarding Iraq and WMD. Has history repeated itself?

There was resistance in the intelligence community to believe these notes were reliable. Nevertheless, the three authors used their "judgment" to conclude this (mis?)information warranted a wholesale rejection of their previous views and ignoring a raft of other evidence (let alone common sense) pointing to Iranian programs geared towards nuclear weapons. Unbelievable....


The Iranians knew we were listening. They disclosed (as they always have) what they wanted to.

interesting possiblity? we shall see

Perhaps the term 'intelligence' is improperly used.

We need a better term for the intelligence community is really information community. How reliable that information is will determine if it is really intelligence.

BTW, if the NIE relates to 2003 - could it be different today?

Biden is considered the dumbest senator in congress.

Posted by ozzieoswald at 2007-12-06 07:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

Link please?

BTW, I don't know where you got your info (opinion) from but I bet it was a Rick Santorum fan.

"BTW, if the NIE relates to 2003 - could it be different today?

Posted by Petrous"

You're joking, right. Please say yes.

Because I would rather not believe that you actually think the information in the NIE is FROM 2003, not up-to-date intelligence gathered over the past few months, and giving the best estimate of current status.

Did Space Aliens Use Force Field to Fool CIA???
Ed Lasky

San - you ruined it.