maybe we should give maria and juan citizenship!

If Rudy offers to pay mine, I just might vote for him. NOT.

Nice try, though, I paid my dues. The Shrub ain't gonna stick this one on me.

Thank you Washington for spending our money on a frivolous unpopular war like drunken sailors in port..

And a preemptive Thank you Washington '08 for spending our money on socialistic national healthcare and bottomless pit social programs like drunken sailors in port...

Those are the published numbers. It's actually many magnitudes worse than that. This country is in the state now where it's creating and borrowing fantastic sums of money that have no chance of being paid off. It's only delaying the inevitable and making the depression to come worse.

As the story said: It's mind numbing. 9 trillion bucks. geez

Truly, and without a doubt -- the WORST President ever.

"If you had gone into business on the day Jesus was born, and your business lost a million dollars a day -- day in and day out -- 365 days a year, it would have taken you until October 2737 to lose a trillion dollars."

WoW! There's a thread with this exact same title with 50+ posts, on the BACK page.

if you think about it, that is not very much.. i don't care really, i'm nearing retirement and only have 20 years left in this life, give or take a few. somebody else can take care of it for me when i pass away.

On the bright side, the impending bank bailout won`t add more than half a trillion or so.

$30,000 debt for every person, eh? Screw it !! I'm not gonna pay !!!

$30,000 debt for every person, eh? Screw it !! I'm not gonna pay !!!

Posted by slowhandml


Most of this debt is to the Federal Reserve! Who owns the Fed and where did the money come from?

Thank you Washington for spending our money on a frivolous unpopular war like drunken sailors in port..

And a preemptive Thank you Washington '08 for spending our money on socialistic national healthcare and bottomless pit social programs like drunken sailors in port...

Posted by aescal

OK, you're equating throwing money into a campfire on a sunny warm day with spending money on a social program which will improve all of our health. Are you in 4th grade?

maybe we should give maria and juan citizenship!

Posted by AuntieSocial

Be careful Auntie, bringing up subjects such as illegal immigration on threads that are not directly related to illegal immigration makes some people cry and take their football home.

Who are Juan and Maria?

Eddie,

That Federal Reserve debt is the Fed OWING the money to people who bought T-bills, etc.... Most of the recent debt is owed to CHINA. This is more commonly know as Smirky the Wonder Chimp's credit card. You know, the one he uses to pay for his war games and those tax cuts for his billionaire but buddies. Too bad your grandkids will be paying this bill for the rest of their lives.

The Federal Reserve is owned by the Rosthchilds, Rockefellers and some other European Bankers...They print our money that is not backed by gold or anything for that matter. Then it is loaned to us with interest. Damn...if only I thought of that...what a sham!

Axe! get with the program

Who are Juan and Maria?

JUAN & maria?

An anagram fer mariJUANa, perhaps?

Be Well.

"Too bad your grandkids will be paying this bill for the rest of their lives."

Not true.

We've all heard the line "our kids and our grandkids will have to pay for this."

Well...look at the age of the geezers saying that. WE PARENTS are the "children". And our kids are "the grandchildren". No one on this blog under 60 will escape unscathed.

An anagram fer mariJUANa, perhaps?

LOL. Then I, too, am for giving them citizenship.

$30,000 per American of debt? That's some fine President you have there Lou.

What most people don't realize is that our economy is based on debt. Thanks to the Federal Reserve. Go Ron Paul!

"Nice try, though, I paid my dues. The Shrub ain't gonna stick this one on me."

What do you mean they arn't going to stick it on you?
They are already sticking it to you at the gas pump and with inflation.

$30,000 per American of debt? That's some fine President you have there Lou.

While Bush has put the cherry on top of the shit pile, it has been 100 years of democrat and republican politicians and a sleeping American public that have gotten us where we are today.

JeffDane says, "They are already sticking it to you at the gas pump and with inflation."

Hey! Jeff! You would have a better impression, living over there in Denmark, and all ...

Are Americans a bunch of whining crybabies because gasoline is over $3.00? Isn't it something a little more than $5.00 there?

Gasoline in Venezuela is around .20 cents a gallon.

If we allowed our own oilfields to produce, instead of standing in reserve (for WHAT?), and allowed 4 new cracking plants -- our gasoline would be about .50 cents a gallon, too.

Then, we could start exploring offshore and assure that gasoline will be available until alternative fuels are being produced in sufficient quantities; even hydrogen.

However, STUPID ENVIRONMENTALIST IDIOTS are radically intent on defeating the United States and turning it into a rural backwoods, to save some trees ... which will burn up in gigantic fires because they are STUPID ENVIRONMENTALIST MEDDLERS in Nature.

And, the Democratic party is in partnership with this STUPIDITY to deny the USA gasoline, so they can turn it into a socialist farm to feed the rest of the world -- who will still be driving their cars to work ...

It's time for the rich to pony up. They've enjoyed the tax cuts for seven years. It would be more than fair to triple their taxes for the next two years. The income tax needs to be progressive.

IGM says, "It's time for the rich to pony up. They've enjoyed the tax cuts for seven years. It would be more than fair to triple their taxes for the next two years. The income tax needs to be progressive."

The tax cut produced record amounts of government revenue -- so, of course, Democratics want to put a stop to that revenue increase by putting on their taxation brakes.

The secret is that they don't care about increased revenue, and since it is all about controlling individuals with the tax. If they argue or don't pay? They go to jail, lose all their savings, houses and cars, and are ruined for life by government.

That's real power, and that's why Democratics want it -- to dictate and rule, and you'd better follow orders ...

Are Americans a bunch of whining crybabies because gasoline is over $3.00? Isn't it something a little more than $5.00 there?

Posted by tadowe at 2007-12-04 06:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

Their money is worth more. Ours has fallen under Canada, and inflation has not kept up with wages.

So yeah, gas prices suck.

Alex says, "Their money is worth more. Ours has fallen under Canada, and inflation has not kept up with wages."

Are you and Bob on the same stuff? Those figures are in US dollars, not dollars and euros ...

"So yeah, gas prices suck."

Yeah, here is one 'whining crybaby' to support Goat's argument.

Are you making ME the subject, tadowe?

Puling hypocrite!

No, Alex, correcting your misunderstanding. Your claim that the money was different value was incorrect ... even obviously so ... and I wondered if you had dumbed down to Bob's level?

You have ...

Democrats don't come close to the lockstep, Orwellian junta currently in power. It's hard to blame them, though. You have to keep the screws on tight to keep people deluded that Reagan was a genius

Your claim that the money was different value was incorrect ...

So the euro, dollar, and canadian dollar are all worth the same amount of money?

Stop doing drugs or start explaining yourself better.

later.

Are you making ME the subject, tadowe?

Puling hypocrite!

"Their money is worth more. Ours has fallen under Canada, and inflation has not kept up with wages." Posted by Alexandrite at 2007-12-04 07:32 AM

You are desperate to find me in error, Alex. I certainly understand your obsession with me, and since so many are caught up in the same neurotic effort to belittle me, personally. It is a power I have with words and their usage -- it traps the attention(s) of weak minded individuals, it seems and results in figuratively sticking their collective tongues out at me ...

Sad ... and not really your fault ... it's this psychic power I have to control you over the internet ...

Now, come on back and do some more of the thing that you are compelled to do.

Are you making ME the subject, tadowe?

Puling hypocrite!

You're continuing to make me the subject. Just can't stop, can you?

Seems like SOMEONE needs to move on with their life and not compulsively obsess over a 2 1/2 year old post.

***** U.S. Debt: $30,000 Per American *****

.......empires can ascend and empires can descend......

.......the American Empire is descending, and the the debt is just one indicator.........

"They are already sticking it to you at the gas pump and with inflation."

Posted by JeffnDenmark

Really? I didn't know that the President of the United States and the US Administration set the price of a barrel of oil worldwide. I'm quite sure that OPEC would be most surprised indeed to learn this.

Alex says, "You're continuing to make me the subject. Just can't stop, can you?"

Well, I want to be fair and answer you, Alex. Anyone who cared could scan up the page and see who addressed who, first.

You wanted to find an error in my comments about gas prices in Denmark being over $5.00 and ours being over $3.00, so you tried to imply that the Denmark "$5.00" was in Euros, and although that symbol is "not available with Rogers' cheap font".

Better luck next time, Mr. Desperate.

Posted by tadowe

"If we allowed our own oilfields to produce, instead of standing in reserve (for WHAT?), and allowed 4 new cracking plants -- our gasoline would be about .50 cents a gallon, too."

So American producers will suddenly and magically start producing and selling oil for what, $10 a barrel? Really? Such altruism! Such compassion the US oil companies will have for the American consumer, cutting their profits and all.

Hi Zot -- My source was a bit old, and petrol prices have risen since, as you indicate.

However, the point was, and remains, that Americans are whining crybabies because the price of gasoline if finally catching up with them.

Indeed, the very cause of that rise is historical, and which foundation is the "strategic reserves" which resulted after WWII, and to "defend our national security". Now, it has become the foundation of the Environmental Movement, and its goal to end the use of petroleum, and to force the USA to do it first, despite the high cost it will mean at the pump, for electricity, natural gas and all other forms of energy.

If we ended the "strategic reserve" rules and laws, and increased cracking production, then our gasoline would be minimal, and certainly nowhere near $3.00 a gallon.

However, thanks for providing more reasoning as to why Americans are whining crybabies, and since gasoline is significantly more costly than I had previously calculated.

You completely dodged the inflation point, and made both of us the subject of your rant, tadowe.

Considering the level of inflation and how it has not kept up with wages, Americans ARE getting raped at the pump.

Alexandrite,

Thanks for the comparison of 1973 dollars with 2006 dollars. I really needed to know that I'm only making about 5% more now than my first day on my first job after college graduation in 1974.

Yeah, it really made my day. Is it too early in the morning for a jumbo martini or two?

"If we ended the "strategic reserve" rules and laws, and increased cracking production, then our gasoline would be minimal, and certainly nowhere near $3.00 a gallon."

Actually, in terms of inflation adjusted dollars, the price per gallon in the US is right around mid-1970s prices.

Absolutely more refinery capacity needs to be built. But the costs will be in the 10s of billions of dollars. The enviros, justifiably so to a certain degree, have blocked this new construction.

Personally, I agree with the strategic reserve. Impacts on the price of fuel is minimal. Europe maintains no such reserve and could be screwed real fast if import interruptus occurred.

Uncapping the wells in the Gulf and off the coast of California and drilling in ANWR will only provide temporary relief, a handful of years at best, and will not reduce the price per gallon. Vast amounts of black gold exist throughout the Rocky Mountain chain, which the Canadians are already exploiting. But the environmental cost would be staggering. One need only to look at the vast open pits in Alberta. Granted, there are less destructive methods for extracting the oil from the sands and shales (steam injection and such). Still, extracting oil from shale and oil sands is not benign. And the costs are high when compared to traditional drill and suck methods.

It is also worthy to note that the high cost of fuel in Denmark, and throughout Europe, is a function of high taxes levied on fuel. Whereas in Venezuela, for example, at 14 cents a gallon, fuel is highly subsidized by the Chavez administration. This gravy train will soon come to a screeching halt.

Still the price of a barrel of oil is basically the same worldwide. What the various governments do with it as the commodity it is equates to the differences in cost to the consumer from country to country.

Of course, none of this has nothing to do with the share of the debt per person. All commentary such as this should be preceded with: RATHOLE ALERT!

Assume for a second that a hypothetical traitor was elected to the office of president. The goal of this traitor is to screw over the country as badly as possible while staying in office.

What could this hypothetical traitor get away with that would be worse than Bush getting us involved in Iraq for false reasons at a time when we're trying to fight a war against people who attacked us, sending our troops into Iraq without a comprehensive plan, handing out blank check, no-bid contracts and refusing oversight to the point where billions just disappear?

"The tax cut produced record amounts of government revenue"
Posted by tadowe

Not once you factor inflation, which a freshman Econ 101 student must do before he's dismissed for fall break. Once that's done, the "record amounts" were for the last year of the Clinton tax codes.

Try this: call high schools near you, until you find one that teaches Economics. Then ask that teacher what he'd say if you compared two different years, say, 2000 & 2006, and the raw dollar collections without factoring in inflation.

Then hold your ears to keep from going deaf due to his laughter.

**** What could this hypothetical traitor get away with that would be worse than Bush getting us involved in Iraq for false reasons at a time when we're trying to fight a war against people who attacked us, sending our troops into Iraq without a comprehensive plan, handing out blank check, no-bid contracts and refusing oversight to the point where
billions just disappear? **Sully****

........what could be worse ?........

well......the traitor could turn over control of our ports to some arab company, practically begging for a terrorist attack .....

......or he could leave our southern border unsecured 6 years after 9/11 so that drugs, illegal aliens, criminals and terrorists can come and go as they please..........

.......or he could continue with trade deals that export both our wealth and jobs to countries that are our declared enemies like China.......

.......or he could increase govt spending but cut taxes to guarantee a huge debt and a nascent financial crisis that will eventually see the dollar look up to the peso...........

.......but come on Sully.......Just because such terrible thing can be imagined...no administration would ever be horrible enough to do it !!

"However, STUPID ENVIRONMENTALIST IDIOTS are radically intent on defeating the United States and turning it into a rural backwoods, to save some trees ... which will burn up in gigantic fires because they are STUPID ENVIRONMENTALIST MEDDLERS in Nature.

Posted by tadowe at 2007-12-04 07:14 AM"

Yup - everyone knows that, before there were loggers acting as "stewards" of our forests, THERE WERE NO FORESTS!!! They all burnt down in Gigantic Fires because Paul Bunyan and Blue were not there to rescue them. Poor ancient forests.

In case anyone was curious: Our debt of 30,000 per person in 2006 dollars is the equivalent of 6614.58 in 1973 bucks.

Just a way to see how much the value of our dollar has fallen in the last 33 years.

I'll have to agree with Danforth on this one, Tadowe once again not seeing the entire reality of his peripheral world.

The tax cut produced record amounts of government revenue -- so, of course, Democrats want to put a stop to that revenue increase by putting on their taxation brakes.

The secret is that they don't care about increased revenue, and since it is all about controlling individuals with the tax.

Posted by tadowe


Tax breaks are great, BUT Tax breaks don't meant shit when you spend so much money that you wind up putting the country in debt to a collection of foreign bankers called the Federal Reserve who now have made an investment class slaves of the US workforce by charging the income tax payer interest on money borrowed to line the pockets of Bushes industry cronies.

So the private bank owners create money from nothing and loan it to the government at interest.

The government allows the Treasury to endlessly print dollars to pay industry owned by the same private bankers.

Meanwhile the working class is being paid in the same dollars that are being endlessly inflated. so unless you invest growing assets, your essentially being taxed.

The bankers enslave the US workforce by forcing the income tax payer to pay income tax from their labor income to cover the INTEREST on the money the bankers loaned to the govt, so the govt can repay the bankers for industrial services.

You don't know you're a slave do you Tadowe, at least I know. You must like having production sucked out of America into the globalist economy.

The tax cut produced record amounts of government revenue

BTW - what the hell are you talking about Tadowe, explain how a tax cut produces Govt. Revenue?

Repugnant,

It's simple! Reducing taxes on the wealthiest 5% to zero, that's right, ABSOLUTE ZERO would result in enough government revenue to immediately pay off the national debt and have enough left over to invade Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, France...(well maybe not France because we don't hate them that much these days), Spain, and Australia (those surrender kangaroos)!

Tardowe

Tad,
Yes gas is about 5 buck a gallon over here. That is because we are further down the socialist tube here.
As soon as Hillary get elected you well be catching up with us.

Was your point that because gas cost more here that everything is fine and dandy there?

Isn't your sideways logic just shirting the real issue?
That is tha the US economy is sinking down the shitter.
You will probably still be defending it after they declare martial law.

BTW - what the hell are you talking about Tadowe, explain how a tax cut produces Govt. Revenue?

Posted by Repugnant
* * *

Same way lowering prices usually leads to increased sales. By lowering taxes on capital and income, it encourages more of the same, thus: higher taxes on lower rates.

Bush cut tax rates, and removed millions of families from the tax rolls entirely. Yet IRS collections are hundreds of billions of dollars a year higher than they were in 2001.

Tad's "point" was that you're a dirty traitorous guy from denmark, a foreign agent who should not discuss US politics.

All he has is demagoguery.

BTW TAD,
The dollar has sunk so low that my money can buy twice as much on ebay from US sellers as it could a year ago.
I really like that, because I like American boots, and levis, and Christmas will be cheeper for me to buy presents for my kids if I buy online. That includes tax and shipping to.

"Danish Krone, 9.99 per liter"
It's actually up over 10 now.
I refuse to own a car over here. I ride my mountain bike or take the bus. I had a scooter but som little sonofabitch stole it last spring.

The dollar has sunk so low that my money can buy twice as much on ebay from US sellers as it could a year ago.

I'm feeling it. I'm selling about half price what I was about a year ago. *sigh*

OH SHIT.....I better make some bigger and better bets at the track tomorrow....

of course if I did hit one even close to that size, this weekend I would be on a nude beach in tahiti........

again...just wanted to leave all of you with that image...

ha ha

this seems like a good place to ask this question and maybe taxman or some other MONEY GEEK.....just kidding...will answer.

I caught a ron paul speech on cspan last night and got in on the tail end of it..

he said that he would like todo away with the federal reserve....how would that affect this...

he also had just finished some other topic and all I got was that he was in favor of an 'alternative monetary system".

does that mean that he wants us all to use gold andsilver to buy stuff with or what....


will have to read response tomorrow morning...

RIR sez:

"Bush cut tax rates, and removed millions of families from the tax rolls entirely. Yet IRS collections are hundreds of billions of dollars a year higher than they were in 2001.

Of course they're higher than 2001; that's when the first Bush tax cuts took effect, and revenues increase naturally, due to increased activity, yes, but also due to increased population.

But when you start comparing apples to apples, that is, yearly collections adjusted for inflation, you discover record collections were in FY 2000, the last year of the Clinton tax codes. They've yet to catch up.

Buy gold

BLT,
Something tells me that seeing you on a nude beach wouldn't be a pretty sight.

Ignoramus

Carefull.

If they levy additional taxes on the "rich" for 3 years.

Anyone making over $20,000 will be considered "Rich".

Will you take a check?

BOING

BOING

BOING

Tax cuts invigorate the economy, and eventually result in higher government revenues

Then we should cut the tax rate to zero. That should really grow the revenue.

Then we should cut the tax rate to zero. That should really grow the revenue.

Posted by 726

Fuck zero; Negative infinity.

Allright!

Now we are getting somewhere!

How about cutting taxes increases home ownership?

Never mind that with a growing population raising taxes would increase home ownership as well.

Never mind that with a growing population raising taxes would increase home ownership as well.

Posted by 726
* * * *

LOL. Try repealing the mortgage deduction, and see what happens to home ownership. And if the only driver of home ownership is a growing population, why did the percentage of home ownership fall from 1925-1940?

Economics doesn't seem to be your strong suit, so try this: would you be more inclined to risk your own capital to start your own business if, after taxes, you got to keep 85% of your profits? Or 40%?

RIR.....you are going to give them a headache with all those true facts.......

arent libs the ones bitching about the mortgage problems presently being bitched about.......and my question on that......who FORCED THEM to buy a house they couldnt afford.....or is it not that simple?

and if this is a correct figure.......I want to know who is spending my share of that because I am solvent? at this moment....that could all change if that blonde down the street gets horny over guys with new cars and does 'down' with the smell of a new car..........
then I might be in trouble.....

Then we should cut the tax rate to zero. That should really grow the revenue.

Posted by 726

Stupid example. Only an idiot would make that argument.

"Only an idiot would make that argument."

Agreed! It seems like only yesterday that our "Idiot-in-Chief" successfully made that argument about taxing inheritance income.

It seems like only yesterday that our "Idiot-in-Chief" successfully made that argument about taxing inheritance income.

What argument did he make?

His argument in favor of eliminating taxation on inherited income, for which Paris Hilton is eternally grateful.

And he suggested that eliminating taxation on inherited income would increase revenue?