No shit.

The major problem with our stategy in Iraq is that our leaders refuse to accept is that there is an opponents here. An that opponent is living and will always live in there Country.

Battle plans for thousands of years have been clear when you are over match you retreat to fight on another day. Maybe someone should give our fearless leader a game called "MOLE".

The Surge will fail because we are fighting a people who have nowhere else to go it is there home, there Country clearly this President has not studied his History!!!!!

Duh!

Geez, ya think?

Be Well.

the idiot rethugs don't want to hear this. they are still waiting on their chocolates.

At least they're showing some manners. Those nasty shia are already taking over Basra and all the southern oil fields. If they're not inviting their guests to party with them, they should at least wait till the guests are gone before starting.

i'd have thought it was pretty obvious this,the insurgents/terrorists/freedom fighters (you decide) know full well this "surge" cannot last forever,even more so now that afghanistan is in a mess and badly needing troops. it makes sense to sit it out then hit hard when the time's right. i'm no military strategist,so why can't the guy's in charge in iraq work this out.

Buff Bob's first post beat me to it.

But But But ROC says everything is hunky dory. You mean to tell Me He is talking out of His ass yet again?? Who would have thunk dat. bwhahahahaha Typical Bushite lives in a delusional plane of existance. Quite funny if You ask Me.

Larry Mohr

STFU. The surge is "working." Quit being defeatocrats.

Love,

Bowa

XOXOXOX

Iraq's main Sunni-led resistance groups have scaled back their attacks on US forces in Baghdad and parts of Anbar province in a deliberate strategy aimed at regrouping, retraining, and waiting out George Bush's "surge", a key insurgent leader has told the Guardian.

Insurgents "spinning" their defeat. How hilarious.

And of course Lefties here hoping that what they say is true.

Insurgents "spinning" their defeat. How hilarious.

The insurgents, as you call them, have another name.

The Iraqi people.

They are not contrary to WH propaganda a few bad apples or foreign AQ fighters.

They live there.

They will never accept America as their occupiers.

The so-called surge never stood a snowflakes chance in hell of succeeding.

Military supremacy alone doesn't win wars.

See: Vietnam.

Be Well.

Bowa

Just because liberals are better at firecasting the results of increibly stupid moves by the government, that doesn't mean that we hope it happens that way.

It's like telling someone to don't drink and drive. They don't say that because they hope you get caught drinking and driving, they know that if you drink and drive bad things can happen. That doesn't mean they want bad things to happen.


Same with invading countries for no reason. Don't do that. Bad thinbgs can happen. And guess what.....

Spuderick these folks don't want the truth told to them they thrive themselves on BULLSHIT propaganda. They lack the balls to accept reality. Just look at Lokisfur's posts for verification,


Larry Mohr

Spuderick these folks don't want the truth told to them they thrive themselves on BULLSHIT propaganda

Sad but true, Larry!

Just look at Lokisfur's posts...

Spud would ...but then Spud would feel all unclean and have to take a shower or sommat in order to feel okay again.

^_^

Have a good night Larry.

Spud is outta here again.

Be Well.

/stage left.

The so-called surge never stood a snowflakes chance in hell of succeeding.

Except of course that it is succeeding.

Military supremacy alone doesn't win wars.

Except of course that the surge wasn't about military supremacy -- in fact it was about implementing a counter insurgency strategy which required our forces to divide into very small units to live among Iraqis, develop relationships on a local level and build trust with the Iraqis. That was the key to the success -- because it provided us with the necessary tips, the actionable intelligence to finally begin breaking up al-qaeda and the various insurgent factions that were terrorizing the local people.

The insurgents, as you call them, have another name. The Iraqi people.

Except of course, that many insurgents are not Iraqis, and many of them have loyalties to al-quada or Iran. And in any case, why the hell are you supporting an insurgency that is targetting, murdering, and slaughtering innocent Iraqis. Why do you believe that the large majority of Iraqis who want peace and prosperity and are not part of any insurgency don't have a right to their own self-determination, yet the "insurgents" who are murdering and killing them do speak for all of Iraq. Why do you side with the murderous thugs Spud?

They will never accept America as their occupiers.

Except of course, that in region after region the majority of the people have chosen to help the US defeat the brutalization of the "occupiers" from al-qaeda or other thug insurgent groups that were slaughtering innocent Iraqis into submission.

See: Vietnam

Except of course that Iraq is nothing like Vietnam. In fact, America has now shown the world for the first time that guerrila warfare can be defeated with the counter-insurgency techniques that we developed in this Iraq war.

We should all be very proud of our military leadership and troops who were able to adapt to ever changing conditions on the ground -- and develop a winning strategy that is paying off bigtime.

The delusions keep on slipping slipping slipping into the future bwhaahahahahahaha

Larry Mohr

Move on had it right. Betrayus

Except of course that it is succeeding.


Parliament done anything? WHo's running the southern half of Iraq? Sadr?

The insurgents, as you call them, have another name. The Iraqi people.

Except of course, that many insurgents are not Iraqis,
Yeah about 700 hundred of them, mostly exported from saudi arabia (where have we seen that before) versus the 43,000 sunnis jihadists we just put on our payroll, including those with links to al queda and who have in fact killed Americans). Sniper's calculator says that measn 123% of the terrorists are foreigners.
And that doesn't even consider the majority shia and their militants.

They will never accept America as their occupiers.

Except of course, that in region after region the majority of the people have chosen to help the US defeat the brutalization of the "occupiers" from al-qaeda or other thug insurgent groups that were slaughtering innocent Iraqis into submission.


That's about half of the 20% of Iraqi sunnis.

So to placate 10% of the population, ( but more importantly Bush's saudi masters),we've created sunni warlords with no love for the shia or Kurdish Minorities.
Some Mission.
Some Accomplishement.
Like afganistan where Gates is walking away from the central government we ceated.

"Spuderick these folks don't want the truth told to them they thrive themselves on BULLSHIT propaganda. They lack the balls to accept reality. Just look at Lokisfur's posts for verification,"

Larry Mohr

Posted by LarryMohr at 2007-12-04 01:56 AM

Actually, Larry just described liberal Democrats, and he doesn't even know it.

Keep up Your delusions R4E. You righties haven't faced reality since You was over Your Mom's lap getting a switching. I am sure Your seas of delusion are mighty full aren't they???

Larry Mohr

I'll repeat my scientifically sound, carefully researched mathematical analysis of the success of the surge.

Per General Petraeus himself, the success of the surge depends on 20% military and 80% diplomatic/political

I'm willing to grant that the military aspect has been probably 80% successful so far. The diplomatic/political aspect is, maybe 10% successful at best.

By my calculation, that puts the success of the surge at about 24% successful.

Insurgents "spinning" their defeat. How hilarious.

Posted by Bowa

From the guy who predicted a victory parade for Bush back in June 2006 and that RudiG's adultery and mis-use of government money on nnky trips wasn't an issue.
Spin indeed, Loki-Bowa!

"America has shown the world for the first time a guerilla war can be defeated...."

Not counting the Brits in Malaysia in the 1950's, or other examples I could name.

What Bowa describes as counter-insurgency tactics is not that thing. Petraeous has never been allowed to use these tactics in Iraq as he would like or they needed to be.

That the enemy would lie low and wait for the reinforcements to go home was predicted and worried about from the moment the Surge was announced.

So, what's Bowa's argument? That the Insurgency was too dumb, too poorly organized or disciplined to do something like that?

Well, let's hope that he's right, I mean really cross our fingers.

In fact, America has now shown the world for the first time that guerrila warfare can be defeated with the counter-insurgency techniques that we developed in this Iraq war.

This should be the lead-off statement in a treatise titled, "Faith Over Experience."

whew, good thing we are giving arms and money to the sunni insurgents!

Iraqi Insurgents WAiting OUt Surge...translation....this will cost us hundreds of billions more.
Remember the movie...Money Pit????

In fact, America has now shown the world for the first time that guerrila warfare can be defeated with the counter-insurgency techniques that we developed in this Iraq war.

and yet, somehow, our Embassy is getting attacked every day and the shia militias have taken over most of Iraq. Attacks are climbing back up in the Concerned Neighborhood Terrorist areas, too.

No wonder Bowa supports RudiG. He just needs to find out what planet his polling station is on.

He just needs to find out what planet his polling station is on.


FF for NorthGuy!

Check out this juxtaposition. First, from the linked article in this thread:

The other is the decision by dozens of Sunni tribal leaders to accept money and weapons from the Americans in return for confronting al-Qaida militants who attack civilians. They call their movement al-Sahwa (the Awakening).

The other is the decision by dozens of Afghani tribal leaders to accept money and weapons from the Americans (the Reagan administration) in return for confronting the Soviet occupiers. They call their movement mujahedeen (strugglers).

For Cripes sake,

If you can ADD a GPS TRACKING CHIP to a $99 CELL PHONE and DISABLE your CAR from SATELLITE using ON-STAR

WHY dont they add a FIRING CHIP with GPS Tracking and Satellite DISABLEMENT to our GUNS we GIVE AWAY (and maybe our own in case they get taken over)..!?

A great way to ID and Validate anyone as "GOOD" in posession of a US Issued GUN.

A great way to identify TROOP Locations via SATELLITE and DISABLING all GUNS within Shooting Range..!??

What are WE GETTING for our $TRILLION besides lots of DEATH..!?????

Good post Hans. It is so easy for us to forget from where Al Quaeda came.

"Those who don't remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Thanks for that great George Santayana quote. It's not so much that history repeats itself; it's just that some people don't seem to learn much from history and insist on acting as agents of repetition (usually of mistakes). Of course, dollops of ignorance and cartloads of hubris help with the mix.

Ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."

Bowa,

Remember the comment "dont get to Rosey"? on the out of context Murtha quoted you jizzed all over?


consider this prelude to I told you so.

Pug

For Cripes sake,

If you can ADD a GPS TRACKING CHIP to a $99 CELL PHONE and DISABLE your CAR from SATELLITE using ON-STAR

WHY dont they add a FIRING CHIP with GPS Tracking and Satellite DISABLEMENT to our GUNS we GIVE AWAY (and maybe our own in case they get taken over)..!?

A great way to ID and Validate anyone as "GOOD" in posession of a US Issued GUN.

A great way to identify TROOP Locations via SATELLITE and DISABLING all GUNS within Shooting Range..!??



What are WE GETTING for our $TRILLION besides lots of DEATH..!?????



Posted by DirtyRIGHTBoy



god damned second amendment applies in the 51st state, does it not!

What are WE GETTING for our $TRILLION besides lots of DEATH..!?????

Posted by DirtyRIGHTBoy


the right for oil companies to control 30+ Trillion in Iraqi oil reserves

pay attention people!!!

well thank god the price of oil is way down since the invasion

er what its tripled?

hmmm somebody is making a shitload of money.

perhaps they are the same people who wanted a war so much?

I hope you all had a cigarette and a good nap after that circlejerk, since you all have been sooo desperate for any bad news out of Iraq.

Hope you put celophane over your keyboards...

Truth - Oh, Please do recall that " the IRAQI OIL will FUND MOST of the WAR and RECONSTRUCTION FUNDS".

RumsFeel and the PARADE of EVIL LIARS claimed about $6 Billion total U.S. Cost out of Picket!

NOW, the SICKO Brat throws tantrums which remove ALL Doubt that HE HAS NO CLUE about U.S. GOVT and CONGRESS' ROLE to keep the PRES in CHECK!!

BUSH is NOT a KING - But even TODAY is DEMANDING that Congress do as He say and continue forking over $100 of BILLIONS We DO NOT HAVE with " NO STRINGS ATTACHED" ( His OWN Words)


GOD SAVE AMERICA

CLINTON / CLINTON 2008

If you can ADD a GPS TRACKING CHIP to a $99 CELL PHONE and DISABLE your CAR from SATELLITE using ON-STAR
WHY dont they add a FIRING CHIP with GPS Tracking and Satellite DISABLEMENT to our GUNS we GIVE AWAY (and maybe our own in case they get taken over)..!?

Any 2 bit hacker can get the GPS in the phone disabled and hotwire a car that's been On-Star disabled.

A gun is a mechanism, it doesn't need electronics to operate and can't be permanently electrically disabled. You might have to replace the firing pin, that's about it.

And how secure do you think a system like that would be? If you could send out a signal and disable every one of our soldier's weapons in the middle of a firefight, you can bet it'll get hacked, and soldiers will die.

No thanks. Just don't give guns to terrorists in the first place.

Disabling the GPS - Sure!

But you design the GUN so that GPS signal is required to FIRE it!

Mechanical can be controlled by Electronics, done all the time.
Just like my CAR FOB opening the door latches and trunk or starting the Car remotely! And my Key Card for Work!

By the time you "break in" to the device to disable it, you would destroy it beyond operation!

By Design - Tampering would render it useless!

More - Tampering, or even attempted removal of cover, would be tracked, recorded, alerted and render the Gun useless.

Eventually - "Conventional" Guns would need to be banned and destroyed over time with tough penalties for keeping an old model, if discovered.

Providing Gun locations to Police and Soldiers is Key!

Auto-disabling GUNS within a Radius of Police or Soldiers is Key!

What about IRAQIS that Patrol with Soldiers!?
Exactly the point - when you show up for the mission, we scan and enable your Weapon (override).

Not a BAD IDEA !!??

What about Captured or Killed Soldiers or Police or equipment?

Once a Commrade is confirmed dead or MIA, you DISABLE the Gun and Track it!

BASICALLY, All Guns should be trackable.
If you are doing something with a GUN that should be "Secret", isn't that EXACTLY what We want to STOP..!!!??

The biggest Civil rights obstacle is possibly being able to track someone else's Gun?
We are crossing those bridges now with the Internet and free access to Public information.

It's awe-inspiring, the lack of technological sophistication I witness in people.

No, GPS in a gun won't work. You'll still have a functional barrel that can chamber a round, and all of the mechanical stuff to make the gun go 'bang' and have a little piece of lead shoot out the end very fast and relatively accurately.

All the electronics will do is mechanically enable or disable the gun. This will require a servo or solenoid, and it won't take much study to what that mechanical pieces need to do, and when they need to do it.

It won't take a day for someone with half a clue and a screwdriver to enable the gun without the electronics. As soon as the mod is known, virtually everyone with a GPS gun will disable the electronics (EVEN IF THEY ONLY USE IT LEGITIMATELY), because keeping a battery charged to operate a gun is at best inconvenient, and at worst, leaves you with a gun that will draw fire, but not be able to fire its self.

Even if the mechanism is a bloody 'Rubick's cube', there'll be mass-produced controllers that bolt right in and replace the security system in a week. If they had hundreds of these 'useless' guns, they would set up an 'assembly line' to hardwire all of them in a day or two, no problem.

VERY worst case, they resort to a 'GPS jammer'. Block the GPS antenna and feed it dummy signals that look the real thing, to tell it that it is exactly where it is supposed to be. These are probably already available for people under house arrest with ankle bracelets. (If not, I have a great idea for a new product....)

In short, a security system to control a gun that you have possession of would be about as useful as a security system to control a hammer.

This is NOT to say that NO such security system would EVER be useful. There's a nifty one where a cop wears a transponder ring that enables his gun when it's in his own hand, but renders it useless for anything but a club without the ring. In a guerrilla war zone, this would only lead to finger and hand amputations of wounded/dead soldiers, but in a normal situation where some asshole grabs a cop's gun, it would be useful. It's just that once you have the battery out of the gun in a secure location, making it work without the ring would only be an interesting puzzle to most 'handy' or technically oriented people, which they'd solve readily, or look up the solution for it on the internet, possibly just order the DIY kit and wait seven days.

As I consider the problem, they COULD put a small bomb in the gun to go off if it's tampered with, or carried out of its intended time/area.

But the weakness here is still the battery. Turn the gun 'on' and isolate the gun until the batteries are dead, and the electronically triggered bomb will be inert, and not only do they have a gun, but now they have explosives to make a bomb, too.

The problem here is you have to make the bomb 'safe'. It has to be safe to transport in situations where it will not have active GPS, or you couldn't deliver them.

Soldiers won't want a gun that could 'accidentally' detonate in their face if they trip while carrying it, and the 'tamper-proof' seal gets disturbed. Nobody will want to transport, or have them transported on their highways if the guns aren't 'safe'.

Even with a BOMB though, people would figure out how to safely transport it, disarm it and enable it for 'unauthorized use', no problem. There's only so much explosive you can jam in a combat weapon that gets hot enough to glow in the dark and catch fire with constant firing, so a quick XRAY picture or two with a dental XRAY will tell you what you need to know to safely dismantle them, even if it blows up in the other room when you do it. After all, those XRAY machines have 'gone digital', like everything else, so you'll have the images from the camera on your computer even if the xray machine is destroyed. Then it's just a matter of analyzing the images, then breaking the gun down and disconnecting or shorting the detonator.

In a place like the middle east, they would probably teach little girls to do it with a drill, and they wouldn't even care how many of them got maimed and killed in the process. They'd probably beat the survivors to death for wrecking the gun and drill.

..In a place like the middle east, they would probably teach little girls to do it with a drill, and they wouldn't even care how many of them got maimed and killed in the process. They'd probably beat the survivors to death for wrecking the gun and drill.
Posted by pingnak at 2007-12-04 06:26 PM

I rather doubt Smith & Wesson would bother paying anyone to beat or maim the survivors. That's just running up their precious overhead..

I'm sorry, but where did you get the idea that gun manufacturers would be the ones doing the mods for terrorists and insurgents in Afghanistan or Iraq?

Sure, they'd probably manufacture the kits that eventually made their way there, but they wouldn't do the refits themselves.

I'm sorry, but where did you get the idea that gun manufacturers would be the ones doing the mods for terrorists and insurgents in Afghanistan or Iraq?
Sure, they'd probably manufacture the kits that eventually made their way there, but they wouldn't do the refits themselves.
Posted by pingnak at 2007-12-04 07:23 PM

Uh, possibly because they are manufacturing weapons for them? You do know what Arbusto was used for, right? It wasn't for oil.

And for the record - it's not my idea, it's simply following your concept to conclusion.. and I thought it was a cute jab at manufacturers. Apparently not. Thanks.

Iraq's main Sunni-led resistance groups have scaled back their attacks on US forces in Baghdad and parts of Anbar province in a deliberate strategy aimed at regrouping, retraining, and waiting out the U.S. "surge," a key insurgent leader has told The Guardian.
Posted by rcade
================
No kidding. Check my past postings. Long ago I said this is what the terrorists should be doing all along before they stood down and I also pointed out that is why the violence is down.

Iraq's main Sunni-led resistance groups have scaled back their attacks on US forces in Baghdad and parts of Anbar province in a deliberate strategy aimed at regrouping, retraining, and waiting out the U.S. "surge," a key insurgent leader has told The Guardian.
Posted by rcade
================
No kidding. Check my past postings. Long ago I said this is what the terrorists should be doing all along before they stood down and I also pointed out that is why the violence is down.
Posted by reznwerks at 2007-12-04 07:48 PM

You must be joking.

The "insurgents ie al Qa'ida" are "regrouping, retraining" - WHERE EXACTLY? Wouldn't our intelligence be aware of that? Isn't that the EXCACT SAME EXCUSE USED TO FLATTEN FALLUJAH?

There never was an "insurgency" - those organized abductions, roadside bombings and strapping live people onto car bombs are performed too consistently and discriminately to be neighborhood violence, or even political dissidents. These are ORGANIZED MILITARY OPERATING WITHIN OUR OWN MILITARY.

Sorry for yelling, tired and hungry. But seriously, what the hell are you thinking? That they are going to "wait us out"? Whoever is performing all of these highly destructive, non-resource protective measures are NOT natives. They travel across Iraq with impunity and loads of weapons. Isn't any of that identifiable or observable by intelligence? Am I just plain wrong about this entire scenario?

Again, tell me exactly WHERE do these al Qa-ida being killed and captured hail from? Maybe these mercs come from anywhere a "school of the Americas" has been instituted? These wars are inside jobs, just like the actions that brought us into it.

Where is GZLives when you need a fat cheek to slap?!

What can they be doing? Where can they be training?

Train indoors.

Train anywhere in the mountains with some lookouts spotting for choppers and such. Hard to spot people, let alone tell what they're up to in mountainous terrain.

Train anywhere in the desert, far away from the patrolled areas. In any outlying town friendly (or fearful) enough, they can act with impunity.

Train in Iran, Jordan, Pakistan, etc. Anywhere the active war isn't.

Relax, let the wounds heal. Oil the guns and load the magazines, and bury them in sealed boxes at convenient locations.

Build lots of bombs. Design new bombs. Tell the suicide bomber recruits how to walk through a crowd and press (or release) a button.

Look into the best price for new war making materials and get the orders in. Collect money to fund more activities. Mend equipment.

Just sit back, take a break and wait.

Maybe making some big plans while they enjoy a big dinner, and playing with their kids afterwards.


Rest certainly isn't anything OUR soldiers are getting.

..Build lots of bombs. Design new bombs. Tell the suicide bomber recruits how to walk through a crowd and press (or release) a button.
Look into the best price for new war making materials and get the orders in. Collect money to fund more activities. Mend equipment.
Just sit back, take a break and wait.
Maybe making some big plans while they enjoy a big dinner, and playing with their kids afterwards.
Rest certainly isn't anything OUR soldiers are getting.
Posted by pingnak at 2007-12-04 09:38 PM

Excuse me, but aren't the "roadside bombs" (ie IED's) supposedly cobbled together from dismantling OTHER explosives? What gives you any idea that there will be "Design new bombs" - designed like a shoe or a banana? There ARE no "new designs" or insurgents or even al Qa-ida. There ARE multiple private militia (ie mercs) operating inside of green zones with impunity and prejudice. I have seen video of Aegis operatives murdering civilians FOR FUN. Blackwater are no better - in fact, they are all basically the SAME ORGANIZATIONS operating under DIFFERENT CORPORATE LOGOS.