This'll put the Corkette on life support and Bowa will be doing the houchie couchie in the streets!

Now all the Hillary campaign has is the argument that everyone already knows about her skeletons and that Obama and Edwards are subject to swiftboating. She no longer has the experience argument, I think the media and the other candidates have done a good job exposing the holes in that argument, and she no longer has the argument that she represents change (aside from the fact that she would be a change from Bush).

President Bush and First Lady Laura Bush gushed about Hillary Rodham Clinton's experience yesterday - saying she could handle the immense challenges of the presidency better than any other Democrat.

The Republican president, in an interview with ABC News, said, "There is no question that Sen. Clinton understands pressure better than any of the candidates, you know, in the race."

Bush called Clinton a "very formidable candidate" who he said understands the "klieg lights" that go with presidential politics.

But, he said, "I do believe our candidate will beat her, if she happens to be the nominee."

Then, he turned around and slammed Clinton's rival, Barack Obama, for promoting the "odd foreign policy" of agreeing to meet with leaders of countries like Iran without preconditions.

"These candidates don't really understand is how complex the environment is inside the Oval Office," Bush said.

............what do you make of this?

............what do you make of this?

Posted by kerrin57 at 2007-11-26 02:48 PM

Bush knows Hillary is the most beatable and he is shilling for her.....albeit for a different reason than WhineCork(tm) is.

Kerrin, I never really have given much credence to what GWB has to say so I took his statements with a grain of salt. I still think Hillary would be a drastic change from the Bush administration in many areas but feel she will maintain the status quo in others.

All one needs to know about the Zobgy Poll is that it is the one Poll that Rush Limbaugh is always crowing about...NUFF SAID!!!!!

Not sure why they're worried about "younger voters". People who generally don't show up to vote in great numbers.

From the data I see, it's always the 45+ crowd that shows up to the polls.

"From the data I see, it's always the 45+ crowd that shows up to the polls."

This is due to the fact that the younger voters haven't had anyone they can really rally behind, Obama could change that. I definitely think the "blue-hairs" are scared of Obama and Edwards, especially republican blue-hairs.

It will be interesting to see if the Dems continue to support someone that is unelectable or if they bail on her and try to find someone that might be electable. Do they not have much to pick from? This election SHOULD BE a lock for Dems......looks like they may blow it though.

It will be interesting to see if the Dems continue to support someone that is unelectable or if they bail on her and try to find someone that might be electable. Do they not have much to pick from? This election SHOULD BE a lock for Dems......looks like they may blow it though.

Posted by ride_on


Hard to disagree there. I will vote for Hillary (if she's the nominee), but I won't risk any money on her winning the election.

Americans are simply too simple-minded to see past stereotypes and negative campaigning.

It doesn't matter who carries the banner of either party. If enough folks to create a reasonable doubt vote for the Repubber again, then America deserves what it gets. Maybe not the rest of the world, but if WE go down, then THEY go down. herm

There are polls, then there are polls....

Click a state (hint: try a few big ones!)

Graduated No 1 in her class at the number 1 Law school in the country.

But, It ain't what you know, or even who you blow.

ITS a PERSONALITY CONTEST. Hillary simply isn't as personable as Bill.

This is no tragedy, since she has already sold out to the powers that be. It would be a tragedy, however, were she to lose to one of the many chickenhawk motherfucking Republicans powerbroker alternatives.

Ron Paul being the only notable exception on the Republican side. But, is he cute and personable enough to win???????

In doing the side by side comparisons of what a person stands for and what might happen if elected, Hillary seems to come out ahead.

Judges -- Hillary will not let the balance slip. Marshall and Ginsberg seem to be she would work to replicate. Almost all GOPs seem to be worshiping at the Temple of Scalia, Thomas and other pro-business, anti-freedom conservative ideologues.

Personal freedoms -- Hillary believes ina right to privacy. The leading GOPS? Privacy? Ha! They think it's a joke.

International cooperation -- Hillary seems to be more like her husband in international affairs; it's important to be seen as a leader by displaying compassion and concern, backed up by military strength. Bush/Cheney-inspired GOPS seem to be inspired by Cheney-esque "realism" -- to them compassion is for pansies -- real macho leaders lead with the military first.

Internal cooperation -- Here Hillary seems to be a bit of a question mark: Can she cooperate with others, or is her sense of indignation at those who have opposed her so strong that it will pull the rug out from under her political foes. While a bit of that is normal, no administration has done it so forcefully as Bush/Cheney, and see where that has gotten the nation. But none of the candidates except for Dodd, Richardson, and possibly Huckabee seem to le low on the personal ego scale. So if Hillary won't be concilliatory, can she work well with all internal factions? But the other half of the question is, would Romney, Mccain, Guiliani or Huckabee be any better?

Typos corrected above:

Judges -- Hillary will not let the balance slip. Marshall and Ginsberg seem to be models that she would work to replicate. Contrast: Almost all GOPs seem to be worshiping at the Temple of Scalia, Thomas and other pro-business, anti-freedom conservative ideologues.

Personal freedoms -- Hillary believes in a right to privacy. Contrast: What do the the leading GOPs think of privacy? Ha! They think it's a joke. So are most personal freedoms, except those that benefit the very wealthy ahead of the average person.

International cooperation -- Hillary seems to be more like her husband in international affairs; It's important to be seen as a leader by displaying compassion and concern for other nations and cultures, and to suppoer international standards of laws, backed up by military strength. Bush/Cheney-inspired GOPS seem to be inspired by Cheney-esque "realism" -- to them compassion is for pansies -- real macho leaders lead with the military first.

Internal cooperation -- Here Hillary seems to be a bit of a question mark: Can she cooperate with others, or is her sense of indignation at those who have opposed her so strong that it will pull the rug out from under her political foes. While a bit of that is normal, no administration has done it so forcefully as Bush/Cheney, and see where that has gotten the nation. But none of the candidates except for Dodd, Richardson, and possibly Huckabee seem to le low on the personal ego scale. So if Hillary won't be concilliatory, can she work well with all internal factions? But the other half of the question is, would Romney, Mccain, Guiliani or Huckabee be any better?

trails...? GOOD. I won't vote for her anyway.

Its such bullshit! The polls will spin Hillary and Guiliani to the top, and if either of them win, big fucking deal. They are both globalist/socialist anti-American pieces of shit.

Meet the new boss, the same as the old boss.

Americans are simply too simple-minded to see past stereotypes and negative campaigning.

Posted by midiman

What are her qualifications and experience? She has been the jounior senator fron NY for a couple years and that's it. Oh, I almost forgot. She waffles on every issue just like Kerry.

I don't worry that much about experience. It doesn't take experience to do the right thing, to be a patriot. Experts are there for the learning curve.

I'm more worried about having a President with morals than experience. I want a President who can't be bribed into actively harming America - ala Dubai Ports World and open borders. Clinton is on the wrong side of that. I don't trust her not to do a foreign power's bidding when they start waving the money around.

Bill was instrumental in the Dubai Ports World deal, and Hillary's the same. Hillary will sell out America for a quick buck. No way in hell will I vote for her.

It's Obama, Paul or Kucinich. I don't think the rest of the globalists can be trusted.

There are polls, then there are polls....

Click a state (hint: try a few big ones!)



www.usaelectionpolls.com

Posted by Corky at 2007-11-26 05:16 PM

Corky, some part of me just loves your tightly wound posterior. The BIG states are Iowa, New Hamshire, Nevada, and South Carolina. Iowa being the biggest state right now.

Who is leading in California and Florida doesn't count for crap at this point of the game.

So in Iowa:

Obama: 30%
Clinton: 26%
Edwards: 22%

The WhineCork(tm) is popping and wetting herself.

The WhineCork(tm) is popping and wetting herself.

Posted by ride_on

The cork is hard to get back into the bottle.

It will be interesting to see if the Dems continue to support someone that is unelectable or if they bail on her and try to find someone that might be electable.

Posted by ride_on at 2007-11-26 04:59 PM | Reply

The argument for John Kerry was that he was a veteran and electable, after the Dean meltdown. It's a loser strategy.

Click a state (hint: try a few big ones!)
Posted by Corky

Corky, When you go swimming, grab something that floats. ( hint: not a brick!)

Having Hilary as the DEM candidate is every right wing nut jobs wet dream. Guess what?? It's not happening. She will doom the DEM's to defeat.

Hey, Wis....I've got the best trick ever seen. Push the wine cork all the way back into an emptied bottle of wine. I swear I can be sitting at any restaurant and remove the cork without breaking the bottle. I've won a lot of money and had a lot of fun with it. IN Corky's case she is her own miracle....the WHINE never stops....congrats to the WhineCork(tm).

-at this point of the game.

Which is not the most important part of the game.

Does your significant other

(that's Nellie, your favorite she-goat to you, Rode Off, and your dear old daily-used Cheesehead Hat to you, Wisn't)

complain miserably when you go off this quickly in bed?


Hyping the importance of a state Bubba never bothered to campaign in is a successful, in your case at least, media effort to raise their ratings (see profits) by presenting primary politics as WWE events.

Something you (no matter which handle you hide behind) can most..... lustily relate to, eh?

Graduated No 1 in her class at the number 1 Law school in the country.

But, It ain't what you know, or even who you blow.



Posted by nutcase
* * * *

Just so you know, Hillary finished first in her class at Wellesley, but not at Yale Law.

Funny looking back behind me on this thread at the trail of rightwing stalker trolls.

Sorta like looking back at a cow trail in Texas.
Just miles and miles of steaming piles.

Know thy enemy, eh, RisR?


I wasn't referring to you in that last, btw. You have legit opinions and commentary, not just a bad case of the ad hominem shits.

Corky-

Tell me, why do you think the Bush stated that he thought Hillary had the most experience to be President, given how he knew that would be received by his detractors?

Just miles and miles of steaming piles.



Posted by Corky

Like the pile on Monica's dress?

Hillary/Obama.
Obama/Hillary.

Either way, Trent Lott has shown us it won't be GOP/GOP.

Sweeeep 2008!

NG3, polls don't mean shit, right? Corky thinks they mean shit, until the beast is behind...

Know thy enemy, eh, RisR?

Posted by Corky

* * * *

Always. I'm even pulling for her. For now.

But, It ain't what you know, or even who you blow.

Posted by nutcase

***

Just miles and miles of steaming piles.

Posted by Corky

* * * *

Has Dr. Seuss taken over this thread?

RisR.

I don't think GW is beyond honesty when it doesn't matter what he thinks on a subject. I mean, he is being termed a RINO himself by his own Party these days.

I s'pose some people could live in the WH for 8 years and then perform admirably, according to her constituents who re-elected her in a landslide and the Repub Sens who admire her, serve in the Senate for 6 years, all the time a major national whipping post of the opposition Party, without becoming "experienced" at governing and at national politics, but I don't think Hillary is that person.

Sweeeep 2008!


Kucinich/Paul 08!

Gravel/Tancredo 08!

Gore/Bloomberg 08!

Obama/Ophrah 08! ( O 'n O '08 )

Hillary sucks! Oh wait, Bill says, "NOT".

But, rumor has it she'll lick em' all.

Who will be Hillary's Running Mate?? JANET RENO???

Larry Mohr

Billy Jean King.....NOPE, she's busy promoting for SnapOn Tools.

All one needs to know about the Zobgy Poll is that it is the one Poll that Rush Limbaugh is always crowing about...NUFF SAID!!!!!

Posted by celisary

But yet is hailed when a Dem is leading in anything.


Carry on, and nice Rush deflection....so overplayed.

Ever since Hillary opened her mouth at the debate about wanting to give drivers licenses to illegal aliens she has gone
D
O
W
N
in all the polls.

Many Americans don't want another Clinton or Bush in the Whitehouse, regardless how experienced, savvy or smart that they claim to be. The neocons have been major players in the economic destruction of this country and Clinton is a neocon supporter.

When it comes to Bush we know his IQ (about 50), and the IQ of the voters who voted him in must be about the same.

As an Independent I certainly don't want another Republican (except Ron Paul) and I don't want Hillary. That's where I stand.

-so overplayed

Unlike the Clinton Deflection(TM)

lmfao!!
Thanks fer that!
FF

Ever since Hillary opened her mouth at the debate about wanting to give drivers licenses to illegal aliens she has gone
D
O
W
N
in all the polls.

Posted by CalifChris at 2007-11-26 09:25 PM | Reply


You got that fucking right Chris. She wants to reward Illegal Behavior and the United States is mighty sick and tired of that. She might as well hang up Her Bra straps cause She is Done.

Larry Mohr

Chris missed the part about it is the Big O who is on record and on vid as For DL's for Illegals, prime GOP advertising for next year, whereas the other candidate is not.

I'm sure it wasn't intentional. For Obama OR Chris, I mean.

This'll put the Corkette on life support and Bowa will be doing the houchie couchie in the streets!

Posted by kerrin57 at 2007-11-26 02:29 PM


FF for Kerrin ;o)


And the reason for Rush citing the Zogby polls--is because they have been shown to be the most consistent in accuracy. If it wasn't so right all the time he would find the polls that are right.

And although Hillary trails in the general election polls--it is still soooo early.

As Zogby would say however,--being this close is a problem if the person is behind.

Watch for the negative ads to skyrocket--Dem versus Dem--Repub versus Pepub--R v D--D v R.

Hillary was out again today baggin Obama--maybe we'll see what the goods are on Obama that she supposedly has.

The unknown is that Hillary is hitting on young women and may bring them into the fold--to come out and vote--but unknown if this will happen until election day--or caucus day.

Murphy

And it is hard to say who Hillary would pick for VP.

No one would pick her as their VP!

She can't stand Obama--watch c-span sometime when they are on the floor and just a few feet away--they never even acknowledge the other is there.

She needs someone who will win a red state and a wimp--like Richardson.

Murphy

The unknown is that Hillary is hitting on young women and may bring them into the fold--to come out and vote--but unknown if this will happen until election day--or caucus day.

Murphy


Murphy!

Your sudden perception that the largest bloc of non-voters the last two elections were..... ta da! women! Millions and millions who said no thanks to Bush and Gore and Kerry (see: men in general).

And your wily wording, "Hillary is hitting on young women", inferring lesbianism of a Christian woman thingy is impressive to say the least!

Good job.

Has anyone seen Twin today? I suspect that she may have hanged herself after hearing the news. I hear she has been buying up packs of smokes so she can lure the homeless to the polls on the appropriate day.

If someone here can contact here, it might not be a bad idea to do a welfare check on her.

This'll put the Corkette on life support and Bowa will be doing the houchie couchie in the streets!

I've been real busy so not much time to blog the past couple of days.

Anyway, this thread did catch my eye. It is quite unexpected. I knew that Hillary and Rudy were neck and neck in the National polls -- but John McCain and Huckabee too!!! WOW!!!!

This ain't the time for gloating however -- I think that this campaign is going to get real nasty from here on in -- and we are going to see mudslinging like we've never seen before. So I wouldn't bet against Hillary. She is the best mudslinger that the democrats have.

BTW: My man Rudy seems to be getting hit hard from all sides now -- a real piling on -- and so far it hasn't affected his poll numbers. But this is the crunch time for him -- If he can survive the barrage of attacks from Romney, Thompson, the Liberal pundits and blogs, the traditional conservative pundits and blogs, the firefighters unions and of course the Democratic candidates -- then he will win the nomination.

It's really not a fair fight though -- Rudy faced much tougher and nastier mudslinging in his 8 years as mayor then he'll ever have to face from the lightweights that are attacking him now. I mean, come on -- "Frank Rich" -- that's a joke right.

Anyway, I'm betting that Rudy gives a lot worse then he gets -- Hillary too -- the mainstream media is going to lap it all up -- and both will likely be their parties nominees.

of course, there is the Obama/Oprah alliance that makes the media all starry eyed and weak in the knees. And we can't overlook the pit-bull that is Edwards - he could land some serious points against Hillary. But ideologically there is no difference between the top tier democrats - so they are all fighting for the same set of voters -- and Hillary still has a huge advantage.

on the other hand, I don't see anyone taking down Rudy -- He owns the GOP moderates and independents -- and all his opponents are cancelling themselves out by dividing the religious conservative bloc.

The unknown is that Hillary is hitting on young women and may bring them into the fold--to come out and vote--

Is it true that Hillary is planning on doing a guest spot on "The "L" Word".

-Is it true that Hillary is planning on doing a guest spot on "The "L" Word".


Only if you cancel.

The inevitability of the situation is nearly perfect, as the sun rises in the east so to will Hillary Rodham Clinton be the Democrat Party Presidential nominee.

The balloons will fall from the ceiling and the band will play and confetti will rain down like prophetic chads of doom.

(cue evil music - the soundtrack from the spice girls movie will work)

And while those who could see the impending disaster will have been screaming 'iceberg dead ahead' for over a year the Democratic Party will gleefully arrange the chairs on the promenade deck until it is to damn late to do anything.

And the thin line that is Karl Rove's lips will twist into a smile.

And if all humor is based on tragedy then we can all have a good laugh.

Yeehaaa!

Corky, I will say one thing -- Hillary has a lot better taste in women then Bill does.

That girlfriend...uhhh..I mean assistant she has is HOT!!!!

In fact, Corky -- If Rudy wore a brunette wig instead of a blonde one-- you can be sure Bill would be hitting on him.

-Yeehaaa!

Another right-wing Obama faux-fan crawling out from under the rocks.

They'll be voting for St. Fred in the fall. While watching the Congressional Dems gain seats in both Houses.

The sound of victory will be the moaning and gnashing of teeth when she wins.

-That girlfriend...uhhh..I mean assistant she has is HOT!!!!

Keep it up.

The lesbian vote beats the Men's Room vote every time.

And the thin line that is Karl Rove's lips will twist into a smile.

LOL

Zulu, You don't need karl Rove to know that if Hillary wins the nomination that's a gift to the GOP.

the Democrats are real stupid like that -- I mean after all they tried to sell America an anti-war protester as a war hero last time -- how crazy is that.

And almost half the country hates Hillary - and won't vote for her. How do they expect she's going to win?

-If Rudy wore a brunette wig instead of a blonde one-you can be sure Bill would be hitting on him

Follow your dreams, Bowa.

If you think, and think hard, that going to Bubba in drag as a brunette will get you laid.... more power to you dude, er... uh, whatever.....

-And almost half the country hates Hillary - and won't vote for her. How do they expect she's going to win?


Wrong again, Bozetta.

Her negatives are the same or less than anyone in the race.

Look it up. Or just stop fibbing.

Keep it up.

I can as long as I don't imagine Hillary actually having sex with her assistant (Gross!!!) -- of course Hillary's assistant and Kucinich's wife -- now that would be worth seeing for sure.

It's a Bad week for you Corky and its only Monday.

If you think, and think hard, that going to Bubba in drag as a brunette will get you laid.... more power to you dude, er... uh, whatever.....



Posted by Corky at 2007-11-26 10:45 PM | Reply


bwhahahaahahaha oh shit hahahahahahaha OMFG ROFLMMFAO HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Larry Mohr

I HAVE TEARS hnbahahaah

Her negatives are the same or less than anyone in the race.

Spare me dude-- I have looked them up. In fact, I posted an entire thread a couple of months ago dedicated to exploring the cnadidates positives and negatives -- Hillary is in deep doo-doo in that area. In a recent ABC poll in Iowa only 15% of democrats think she is honest and trustworthy.

Rudy/Kerik 08!

'I mean after all they tried to sell America an anti-war protester as a war hero last time'

Really, it's like they want to lose. What is really funny is the look of confusion on the faces of all the 'un-biased' talking heads when a Democrat Presidential candidate loses. I never get tired of that, and I can always be certain to enjoy it every four years.

Honest and trustworthy, lmfao!!

Ask any of Rudy's three wives and numerous mistresses (mistri?) how honest and trustworthy he is!

Rudy Honest and Trustworthy?? You wouldn't have a Mistress on the side while being Married if You was Honest and Trsutworthy. What utter Bollocks.

Larry Mohr

And your wily wording, "Hillary is hitting on young women", inferring lesbianism of a Christian woman thingy is impressive to say the least!

The writer implies.

The reader infers.

But go Hillary!

(Favourite bumpersticker recently observed on a Jeep on S.H. 46---

"Life's a Marxist Cunt

Don't Vote for One!"

Really, it's like they want to lose. What is really funny is the look of confusion on the faces of all the 'un-biased' talking heads when a Democrat Presidential candidate loses. I never get tired of that, and I can always be certain to enjoy it every four years.

Yeah, it amazed me that they actually thought John kerry was going to win -- as if America would remove a sitting Presidnet during wartime to replace him with an anti-war guy who owed his career to trashing the soldiers he served with in Vietnam.

If that happened we might as well just be "South Canada" instead of the USA.

Rudy/Huckabee 2008

You'd likely be more comfortable in So Carolina, where they know a black baby when they see one.

Maosy

"Life's a Marxist Cunt
Don't Vote for One!"

That has to be better than

"Life's a New York Giu
Don't Vote for One!"

That has to be better than

"Life's a New York Giu
Don't Vote for One!"

Its not.

That's classic!

Top 3 things about Hillary that make the hair stand up on the back of a sane person's neck:

3: Throwing away of Socks the Cat (at least the cat didn't have an accident' like dog).
2: The fake laugh. (Imagine an alarm clock programmed with that cackle)
1: She expects a nation to have more respect for her than her husband.

Lyrics you can bet will not be heard at the DNC convention but would be appropriate:

Sometimes its hard to be a woman
Giving all your love to just one man
You'll have bad times
And he'll have good times
Doing things that you don't understand
But if you love him you'll forgive him
Even though he's hard to understand
And if you love him
Oh be proud of him
Cause after all he's just a man
Stand by your man

Ha! Thanks.

Yours would sell well down here in GOPher Paradise, though.

I think St Fred will have a chance after they figure out Rudy is a NY Gui and Mitt is from Taxachusetts.

Rudy/Huckabee 2008

Posted by Bowa at 2007-11-26 11:13 PM

What a powerful combination. First Lady De Jour coupled with The Earth Is Flat. Having Huckabee at his side will certainly make it more convenient when Giuliani changes spouses.

Mao

You are an objective observer, settle something for us.

How much chance does a black man named Hussein who is Left of Hillary Clinton, prolly is a Manchurian (Tehranian) Candidate, wants to take away our guns, replace our Bibles with Korans, put a burka on Hillary ( OK, scratch that one!), and prolly has a white baby somewhere.... of fairing any better than Hillary would as far as the negative polling the GOP can generate against them given a full year to do so?

I'll take "toss up" or "more than" as answers.

And your wily wording, "Hillary is hitting on young women", inferring lesbianism of a Christian woman thingy is impressive to say the least!
Good job.
Posted by Corky at 2007-11-26 09:42 PM

What a potty mind!

Although anything posted--

Appealing to young women
Getting to young women

Doesn't get any better---

The problem with young women is that many don't vote. And the polls can't call them because they are not listed anywhere to call.

Tha't why we won't know until the day of the caucus or the primaries if there are additional voters in the form of young women.

And Hillary's negatives are much much higher than anyone else running.

And after the news is coming out about Huckabee--he is becoming doubtful as a VP pick.

The mud will start to fly between now and super Tuesday--HIllary had to stop Obama and the Clintons know dirty tricks--just like the rest.

Murphy

Corky--

The thing with Obama is that he is likeable. I don't agree with pretty much everything he says--and he is soooo naive. He means well, and then, well--there's real life.

But he is the person that exudes "change".

Would Obama win against the GOP candidate--Not for another 20 years--at least.

Murphy

Hillary isn't gonna be the nominee anyway IMO

What in the world will all the Clinton haters hate then? I'm sure they'll come up with something. It's just what they do.

-Would Obama win against the GOP candidate--Not for another 20 years--at least.

Murphy

You to prove my unfortunate point about Republicans, Murph. Not that you personally would think that way.


Btw - Bush was "likable". Most people who had that beer with him wouldn't want to have another, though.

You are an objective observer

I am as objective and unbiased as they come.

settle something for us

I'll do my best.

How much chance does a black man named Hussein who is Left of Hillary Clinton, prolly is a Manchurian (Tehranian) Candidate, wants to take away our guns, replace our Bibles with Korans, put a burka on Hillary ( OK, scratch that one!), and prolly has a white baby somewhere.... of fairing any better than Hillary would as far as the negative polling the GOP can generate against them given a full year to do so?

None whatsoever.

The idea of Obama is nothing more than intellectual masturbation for the angry and hygiene-challenged little urchins of the left-wing blogosphere.

Right now he's a "hot" thread with 500+ posts, but will very soon be archived into oblivion, indistinguishable in significance from one of Buffalo Bob's "New Evidence of a Face on Mars" blog entries.

It's Hillary's time, and she will be the candidate.

And despite the undeniable GOP incompetence in stewarding the Executive and Legislative branches of government, the Democrat party will fail to capture the presidency once again because they were unable to mount a serious candidate.

And after the news is coming out about Huckabee--he is becoming doubtful as a VP pick.

Murphy, there is so much "coming out" about all the candidates that the public becomes numb to it all after a while. What is left is the public personas of the candidates -- and the person who voters would "most like to hang out and have a beer with' is who wins elections -- the likeablity factor.

And both Rudy and Huckabee who often have their audiences laughing hysterically -- would make a powerful duo in that respect. They are both very likeable.

On the dem side. Obama is very likeable. In fact, in a recent AP-Yahoo poll, both Rudy and Huckabee led their respective parties in "likeablity" factor.

-indistinguishable in significance from one of Buffalo Bob's "New Evidence of a Face on Mars" blog entries

hahahahaha!!!

-the Democrat party will fail to capture the presidency once again because they were unable to mount a serious candidate

A woman or a black guy seemed like an unnecessary risk to me, especially when the GOP is in such disarray and the Sen up for grabs.

I was hoping for a charisma transplant for Bill Richardson, but it has been slow going.

But then, the NY Gui or the Taxachussets Gov OR the Beagle-faced Fred are not any more serious, imnsho.

I'm thinking Gore/Kerry '08!

I was hoping for a charisma transplant for Bill Richardson

I'd take Richardson seriously.

Or Biden (even though he's a jackass).

Those are sober, presidential men.

The idea of Obama is nothing more than intellectual masturbation for the angry and hygiene-challenged little urchins of the left-wing blogosphere.

Pinche, I completely disagree. I think that Obama has a real shot at winning the nomination. he has many things going for him. He's trustworthy and doesn't have her baggage. he's got Oprah. He has a lot of people in the MSM pulling for him-- and they are not attacking him as much as they could be.

On the other hand, even though Hillary is a democrat -- the media is not in love with her like they were and stil are with Bill -- and their "crush" on him doesn't really extend to her all that much. I think a lot of the people in the media hate and resent her. They might like the idea of "bill" being back in the white house -- but there's a real "yuck" factor to having to put Hillary in the oval office for that to happen.

I'm thinking Gore/Kerry '08!

I can't take either one seriously anymore.

Especially Gore.

You don't want left-wing whack-jobs, no matter how much they appeal to your idealism.

For the same reason, I can't take Ron Paul seriously.

You gotta be pragmatic.

-Those are sober, presidential men

They are that. Competent, smart, experienced.... they don't stand a chance in the Oprah/American Idol Generation.

Nite, Tex.

I think that Obama has a real shot at winning the nomination

I can't honestly believe the Democrat party would be stupid enough to nominate him.

I really can't.

Granted, I hope they are....

...but I just cannot believe that this nation and civilization would be so lucky as to completely dodge the bullet of a Democrat president.

Nominating the Numinous One would ensure that's the case.

-I can't take either one seriously anymore.

Oh, I was kidding. Though rather surprised neither got in early.

-You gotta be pragmatic.

It's a tough heart (Obama) or head (Clinton) choice for a lot of Dems.

Paul reminds me of Ross Perot at a John Birch convention.

Hillary will not be President, but thanks to her, a female President will arise in future.

As for Obama, if he wins the nomination, he should select Joe Biden as his running mate, who will provide the 'gravitas'. Obama, charisma, Biden, gravitas.

But I believe the nation as a whole is still not quite ready for a Black President, so my advice to Obama: after losing this round, exit gracefully, keep your nose clean, and reenter the Presidential race in 2016 (eight years). I hope with all her wealth and popularity, Oprah will live long enough to see you placing your hands on 'the Bible' and being sworn in as the first Black President of the most powerful nation on earth.

It's a tough heart (Obama) or head (Clinton) choice for a lot of Dems.

And the fact that that's what constitutes the choice for the Dems---despite the once-in-a-generation opportunity they've been given to strike a mortal blow to this nation---is a tragedy.

For a lot of Dems.

---is a tragedy

Perhaps.

But they are of no worse quality than their opposition.

Whenever I need a smile these days, I imagine the GOP Platform Committee trying doing a re-write that fits Rudy or Mitt.

It ends in a bloodbath of paper cuts.


Seriously, G'nite!

As for Obama, if he wins the nomination, he should select Joe Biden as his running mate, who will provide the 'gravitas'. Obama, charisma, Biden, gravita

If Obama wins the nomination he will have to choose a VP that will give him an edge in a "purple" state -- like JFK did by picking LBJ from Texas.

Whenever I need a smile these days, I imagine the GOP Platform Committee trying doing a re-write that fits Rudy or Mitt.

The GOP is the party of diversity.

The democrats are not.

-The GOP is the party of diversity.


They like both kinds of music, country AND western.

The democrats need to come up with something a tad more intellectually valid than economic protectionism, pacifism, overall self-loathing, and "shrub".

They could nominate Jesus Christ himself and still fail to get beyond the "election fraud lawsuits" phase of obtaining significant power unless they're able to generate realistic ideas about how to deal with that scary monster called "The Real World".

They like both kinds of music, country AND western.

The democrats have little diversity of thought. The top tier candidates are diverse in color and gender but ideologically they are interchangeable.

On the other hand, the GOP is not nearly as monolithic -- and has a lot more to offer to a wider range of people with different views.

They could nominate Jesus Christ himself and still fail to get beyond the "election fraud lawsuits" phase of obtaining significant power

Funny how the democrats didn't charge 'election fraud' after the 2006 election -- especially since in the weeks and months before it, they were getting primed to call foul by pointing out all the ways that the mid-year elections would be stolen.

Are we supposed to believe that the fraud didn't take place just because democrats won? or should we believe,as is likely the case, that democrats are just sore losers who cannot take being on the losing side and will just cry foul now anytime they lose an election in order to deligitimize it.

To their credit, the GOP exercises a lot more maturity in the electoral process - and when we've been beat -- we focus on doing the better the next time -- instead of developing a plethora of conspiracy theories to explain how the election was stolen as is the democrats MO.

To their credit, the GOP exercises a lot more maturity in the electoral process - and when we've been beat -- we focus on doing the better the next time -- instead of developing a plethora of conspiracy theories to explain how the election was stolen as is the democrats MO.

You're just expressing those notions because the right-wing corporate media and Faux News has spoon-fed them to you.

You're just expressing those notions because the right-wing corporate media and Faux News has spoon-fed them to you.

No. I'm expressing those notions because I watched the bullshit that the democrats tried to pull in 2000 in Florida and Ohio in 2004.

Sarcasm.

The GOP is the party of diversity.

~Buttons & Bowas

They like both kinds of music, country AND western.

~Corky.

FF!! ...fer Corky.

WTF?! ...fer Bowa.

The "Big Tent" theory of GOPher-land?

Surely you jest? No?

Clue to Bowa from Spud:

It's a Big White Tent... period.

...the GOP is not nearly as monolithic

Nephew, Puh-lease!

The GOP put the "Thick" in Monolithick!

The only diversity Spud can see in the GOP is that some of them like going to see lady whores, others prefer anonymous encounters with other guys in public restrooms and the third type who chat up under-age pages.

Beyond that?

They are all the same in terms of corporate corruption, political incompetence, economic suicidal tendencies, theocratic fundamentalism, moral bankrupcy, plus they haff the added bonus of all haffing a marked inability to use either soft or hard power effectively.

Dems on the other hand have proven themselves to be more economically savvy, more inclusive politically, more fair, less secretive, more likely to do the people's business than be the out and out elitist corporate whores and meat puppets that the GOP have consistently proven themselves to be.

Both parties are systemically challenged by a system that has them chasing corporate donations more often than doing the people's business.

That can and must be changed.

The GOP under bush/CHENEY have proven themselves incapable of adhering to the precepts enshrined in the Constitution.

In fact they have subverted sed document to the point of treason.

On Topic?

Hills unfavorables?

Are real.

If she gets the nod Spud is gonna support her candidacy over any and all comers from the right.

Still, as always, Spud thinks the new millenium requires a break from the Bush/Clinton pattern.

Obama/ Edwards would clean house.
Obama/ Kucinich would be amenable to Spud as well.
Obama/ Biden would make a nicely balanced ticket.
Obama/ Dodd has a nice ring to it as well.

Newer brooms sweep cleaner.

Obama '08.

Be Well.

PS: Mao calling Hil a "Marxist" is laughable.

Particularily in light of the fact that much of BushCo Iraqi Debacle is being financed with a Chi-Com credit card.

Ever try reading the small print on that bill in Cantonese?

No? Apparently, neither has Dumbya.

It's a Big White Tent... period.

That's right.

A Big White Tent.

Because the only proper way to conceptualize society and formulate public policy is to reduce people into competing swaths of race and class.

That's "progressive", you know.

And goes a long ways towards explaining the political triumphs experienced by the political Left over the past 70 years or so.

...realistic ideas about how to deal with that scary monster called "The Real World".

Get real, Mao.

The GOP are the reality impaired ones.

They think they can change reality through redefining it continually.

They are wrong to think this.

The idea that Dems are too soft to lead the US through the shark infested waters of geo-global politics is utterly assinine.

Dems have softer hearts than GOPhers that's a fact.

(Especially Cheney's nuclear powered ticker)

But they aint soft in the head like the GOPhers.

America can't afford to let the GOPhers bankrupt the US any more than they already have.

Both economically and morally, btw.

Mao seems to think that the government isn't already in the business of redistributing wealth.

How utterly naive can ya get?

S'rsly!

"Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore, riding through the glen
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore, w/o his merry men
He steals from the poor and gives to the rich
Stupid bitch"

~MPFC

Be Well.

Mao seems to think that the government isn't already in the business of redistributing wealth.

No I don't.

How utterly naive can ya get?

Well...you can make assertions like this:

The idea that Dems are too soft to lead the US through the shark infested waters of geo-global politics is utterly assinine.

(By the way, its "asinine".)

(By the way, its "asinine".)

BTW "its" should be "it's"

Spud luffs it when folk make spelling errors when "correcting" Spud.

Particularily monosyllabic ones.

"Well if you're going to split hairs I'm going to bloody well piss off"

~MPFC

Be Well.

PS: Victory is yers.

Spud is flee in abject terror at the imposing and fear inducing presence of the legendary Pinche Mao!

Spud throws his wee hands up in the hair and runs shrieking all the way to the edge of the blog-stage. Despite being shaken to his very core by the intellectual thrashing he has just taken Spud is nonetheless exit the Mighty, Mighty DR, as ya do,
stage left.

* chortle * ^_^

Spud luffs it when folk make spelling errors when "correcting" Spud.

That was a punctuation error, actually.

Spud throws his wee hands up in the hair and runs shrieking all the way to the edge of the blog-stage.

I don't blame you.

'Night.

Bowa's right. To the Democrats, "diversity" means a pro-abortion, pro-high-taxes, pro-big-spending, pro-gay-marriage, pro-crippling-environmental-
legislation, pro-trial-lawyer, anti-free-trade, big-government socialism. The Dem contenders are tripping over themselves to prove who offers the more generous universal health care plan, or who will promise to raise taxes on American business the most. They do, however, come in three flavors: dyed-beach-blonde white Metrosexual lawyer; African-American male lawyer; white former First Lady lawyer.

There's something a little more refreshing about the Republicans though. Giuliani is a thrice divorced social liberal but extreme fiscal and law-and-order conservative. Huckabee is a social conservative but fiscal liberal. McCain is all over the place, championing conservative causes most of the time, yet able to put together a constitutional abomination like McCain-Feingold. Romney is a Mormon who was somehow able to win elections in liberal Massachusetts. Yet each of them has a simple message to the electorate: This is who I am, take it or leave it.

If you want true diversity, you won't find it on the Dems' side of the aisle. Seriously. If all you had to read was the transcript of their positions, would you even be able to tell them apart? Nope.

the republicans stand for stealing from the poor. Creating legislation that hurts everyone but the top 1%. The republicans also stand for having healthcare for only the wealthy. Republicans also stand for creating wars based on lies to drive up stock profits. Republicans are great people aren't they.

Don't forget the rest of it...republicans want to poison the air, they want to pollute the rivers, starve children, throw old folks out on the street...you got it right, BYRDBRAIN...you're a good li'l puppet and you've learned your MoveOn lessons well.

PINCHE MAO

I am as objective and unbiased as they come.

The idea of Obama is nothing more than intellectual masturbation for the angry and hygiene-challenged little urchins of the left-wing blogosphere.

Can you say self retorting retort?

"Romney is a Mormon who was somehow able to win elections in liberal Massachusetts. Yet each of them has a simple message to the electorate: This is who I am, take it or leave it."

Actually with Romney its more like "this is who I am right now, take it,leave it, or I'll do a 180. Whatever it takes"

I'm betting Senator Byrdman is an Edwards man. True, the Dems' contenders' views are interchangeable. But a retrograde like Byrd isn't going to have a woman or a black sitting in the White House, when there's a perfectly acceptable white guy in the race.

the republicans stand for stealing from the poor. Creating legislation that hurts everyone but the top 1%. The republicans also stand for having healthcare for only the wealthy. Republicans also stand for creating wars based on lies to drive up stock profits. Republicans are great people aren't they.

Posted by byrdman

I love this place.

"I love this place."

Sure beats soap operas, doesn't it?

And now you know why Google supports Ron Paul. A weak attempt to divide the Republican vote.

I had a great Thanksgiving weekend but nothing was as fun as watching a Corky meltdown.

Wisgod:
"Like the pile on Monica's dress?"

No, like the piles of dead bodies left behind by Dumbya in a war of occupation.

Get around the facts on the chart in the second box down on the right in this 2007 study by Pew Research:

Party identification: Democrat 50% Republican 35%

Pew Research study on Party Affiliation


Posted by AMERICANUNITY
* * * *

Yes. The shift takes place when voters move from the theoretical (Democrat or Republican) to the actual --Hillary or Edwards or Obama versus an actual human being.

No, like the piles of dead bodies left behind by Dumbya in a war of occupation.

Posted by SamBarber

And as long as the democratic candidates continue to run against Bush, expect poll results like these to continue.

Yes. The shift takes place when voters move from the theoretical (Democrat or Republican) to the actual --Hillary or Edwards or Obama versus an actual human being.

RiR

Just when I was starting to lend you a little credibility as a sensible person LOL

Party identification: Democrat 50% Republican 35%

Pew Research study on Party Affiliation



I see this as a good thing! The GOP has been acting like mini dems with big gov spending... we call'en Rinos... they have betrayed conservatives . They even stepped beyond dems with the internet gambling issue.

re-
"The GOP has been acting like mini dems with big gov spending..."

I suppose one could characterize exploding the national debt more than all previous administrations combined as "acting like mini dems", if one were a partisan hack.

Kerrin-
You just called bush a "rino", as he did not veto a single spending bill until the Dems took control of Congress.

I suppose one could characterize exploding the national debt more than all previous administrations combined as "acting like mini dems", if one were a partisan hack.

Posted by Cooper

And where do you suppose Hillary will get the money to pay for all her Socialist promises she's made on the campaign trail?

Funny. No one asked that question as our $50 billion (paid for with Iraq oil revenues) war turned into trillions.

Funny. No one asked that question as our $50 billion (paid for with Iraq oil revenues) war turned into trillions.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

New social programs + continued effort in Iraq = bigger deficit.

Sincerely, Hil

"Party identification: Democrat 50% Republican 35%"

It has almost ALWAYS been that way...with more people saying they're democrats than republican. But then you have to explain the phenomenon that the democrats have only elected ONE president since the election of 1976 and that one didn't get 50% of the vote. He was also the only democrat REelected since FDR in 1940. As of right now, polls show the likely democrat nominee trailing the top five republican candidates. There's surely some kind of mystery here...what in hell are all these "majority" democrats doing?

Wisgod-
And where do you suppose Hillary will get the money to pay for all her Socialist promises she's made on the campaign trail?

Posted by wisgod at 2007-11-27 10:25 AM

Well, from borrowing from the Chi-Coms, as Bush has. She will also be able to indefinitely detain any citizen on her word, and spy on any citizen without warrant.

Have you been asleep, or were you always stupid?

Partisan hack...how trite, and terribly original of you.
I do hold repubs and Bush responsible for much of the debt. But I take into consideration the staggering economic impact 9/11, the Clinton recession, the war, and oil price.
Look at the goodies Hill is promising, the votes she is bidding for. Look at Rangel's tax plan...which I suspect was actually a trial balloon for Hil's plans.
Here's a unique idea...how about consolidation of duplicate agencies, cracking down on fraud and spending cuts. How about letting hardworking people keep some money for their retirement and the kids college tuition, instead of bennies for people unwilling to be responsible for themselves?

JestGetting it wrong-
re: It has almost ALWAYS been that way...with more people saying they're democrats than republican.

To this degree? Like, when? (or did you just pull that out of your...hat, or someone elses?)

Clinton recession? When did that happen?

WIS - nice deflection on the massive debt Bush and the GOP Congress ran up

Have you been asleep, or were you always stupid?

Posted by Cooper

Based on your reponse Boyd, I would assume you can't answer the question.

Kerrin-
Gee. I just stated that the Bush administration has exploded the debt (thank you Chi-Coms) more than any other administration combined, and you don't skip a beat, or challenge it, but just flow into a Hitlery lather.

Speaks volumes, dude. You really should have a degree of thorough mindless indoctrination on your wall.

Framed, and signed by Rush himself.

WIS - nice deflection on the massive debt Bush and the GOP Congress ran up

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Sure they have. And you want more, right?

"re: It has almost ALWAYS been that way...with more people saying they're democrats than republican."

Go look it up....and YES, with the 15% gap for democrats, please 'splain the the repubs leading the most likely democrat candidate...or did you just overlook that?

Now you get it COOPER...Bush has let the conservatives down ! Then his stance on illegal immigration has truly pissed them (ME) off. That is why he is so low in the polls. But what some can't seem to get thru their head is that , THAT will not turn us into dems. Being disillusioned with repubs is not an automatic win for dems.

Wisgod-
I answered your question, babe.

Framed, and signed by Rush himself.


Coop ...ya just gotta get new material,fella!

Kerrin-
I don't even want you to vote the same way I vote. It would make me nervous.

Where did you get the idea that I wanted to convert you?

Kerrin, you have once more hit the nail on the head. Cooper, AU et al contine to think that Bush is seeking a third term.

Damn!...just looking back at some of ol' Coops responses and I see everyone on this thread is "mindless," "stupid," "asleep" or a "hack." EXCEPT ol' Coop, of course...LOL

Hey, Coop! Have you ever heard that old saw, "If a man calls you a jackass, ignore him. If a bunch of people are calling you a jackass, go shop for a saddle."?

Kerrin-
It's true. You're a ditto-head if I ever saw one.

Let me repeat:

I stated that the Bush Administration has increased the national debt more than all other other administrations combined, and you reflexively shriek about Hitlery and the "tax and spend" Democrats. Well, your philosophy of "spend and borrow" has got Canadians laughing at us, hoser.

You are a transparent tool, man. I hate to point that out, but there it is.

you guys might want to give cooper and au a break. you do know the writers are on strike and they have been running reruns over at the john stewart show.

Coop, you must love doing the limbo dance. You seem to always set the bar very low....

Wisgod-
re: Cooper, AU et al contine to think that Bush is seeking a third term.
?????

I said this when, WisGod?

Ahhhhhh...COOP. In my younger more idealistic days I was one of you (shudder)...but I got educated,worked hard with DH to make a good life for self and family. The harder we worked, and the more money we made the more government worked to tax us back to the middle. We have carried another family on our backs for many years now Hil and Dems want to add more to the tit.

Kerrin says "Now you get it COOPER...Bush has let the conservatives down ! Then his stance on illegal immigration has truly pissed them (ME) off. That is why he is so low in the polls. But what some can't seem to get thru their head is that , THAT will not turn us into dems. Being disillusioned with repubs is not an automatic win for dems."

Then Boyd comes back w/ "I stated that the Bush Administration has increased the national debt more than all other other administrations combined, and you reflexively shriek about Hitlery and the "tax and spend" Democrats. Well, your philosophy of "spend and borrow" has got Canadians laughing at us, hoser.

You are a transparent tool, man. I hate to point that out, but there it is."

Boyd, you must have missed his post b/c everyone knows you are not a tool. Right?

Cooper, all you and AU have done for the last hour is bitch about Bush, debt, Iraq etc. Seeing as this thread is based on Presidential polling results, I just assumed you thought he was running.

Kerrin-
Yes, you are one of those who believes that we should pay for what we spend.

OMG!...just like me!!

So why are you a Republican, still?

WISGOD

I speak of massive spending and deficits that have actually happend and you speak of 'ain't happened yet spending' as a deflection. I recall we had a balanced budget and projected surpluses enough to pay off the national debt that eats $450,000,000,000 (BILLION) a year in service payments, and shore up SS.

Democrats 'pay as you go' worked out OK until Bush and the GOP went on their massive spending spree and have now obgligated us for what is expected to be $3 TRILLION dollars for Iraq and replacing worn out military hardware.

Talk about what's happened already, not some pie in the sky Rush 'what ifs' OK?

I find it very interesting that my statement that the Republican President and Republican Congress has increased the debt (think Chi-Coms) more than all other administrations combined has not even received a response. Not a flutter. Not a whimper of denial.

Nada.

Crickets.

Talk about what's happened already, not some pie in the sky Rush 'what ifs' OK?

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

So let me get this straight, you want to talk about the past, and I want to talk about the future. Maybe we can meet in the middle, and talk about today.

COOP
You're a ditto-head if I ever saw one.

Let ME repeat: "how trite, and terribly original of you"

Explosive Debt???

Let ME repeat:"the staggering economic impact 9/11, the Clinton recession, the war, and oil price."

WisGod-
re: Maybe we can meet in the middle, and talk about today.

You seem reluctant to do that.

Lety Me play a Danforth for a Minute. I am sure He will kill Me for this so be it. The Recession didn't start until March 2001 Dubya was in office then. Please try again.

Larry Mohr

TODAY, Clinton trails the top 5 Republican candidates (According to Monday's Zogby Poll). I put that last part in for AU, as it now Tuesday.

Au, the democrats did not pay as you go. That was called a republican congress w/ a democratic president. Boyd, there is nothing to defend when it comes to the spending and the deficit. Kerrin already stated that he was dissapointed w/ this admin. But, as usual you won't drop it so you can pretend you are winning the debate and avoid talking about the current election promises made by candidates and where they stand in the polls. Why don't you discuss how you feel about the leading democratic presidential candidates refuse to pull troops out immediately and cut spending? They are calling for continued troop deployment as well as other endless spending.

Let ME repeat:"the staggering economic impact 9/11, the Clinton recession, the war, and oil price."

So, you agree that Bush has increased the debt more than all past administrations COMBINED.

Of course, it's - in ascending order - the fault of

3. Oil, an inanimate object

2. Clinton

1. bin Laden



Look, I'll see you around when you find your "accountability" administration, which seems to be lost, as does Bush' reins over discretionary spending and the value of the dollar.

So let me get this straight, you want to talk about the past, and I want to talk about the future. Maybe we can meet in the middle, and talk about today.

WISGOD

Sure. Today...just today....we'll pay $1.20 BILLION in debt service payments, Iraqis will die, 75% of Americans are not happy with the state of the country, and everything's peachy keen under the leadership of your god. LOL

Yes, you are one of those who believes that we should pay for what we spend.
OMG!...just like me!!

No,Coop ...I also believe in cutting the amount we continue to waste on "the war on poverty" which if you have followed some of the current threads on DR you would see WE LOST. Over 3 trillion dollar later we have as many if not more "poor" living off the government tit.
We have more people building on flood plains and deserts...in precarious regions ...knowing the government will save their bacon. It has to stop one way or another. At some point you will have milked the "rich" dry and that is when they come after anyone with a decent wage. When we have created more generations of dependent non-working but voting DEMOCRATS.They will not know how to work or exist without the handout!

AU, what's "peachy keen" is that Clinton trails the top 5 Republican candidates.

AU, what's "peachy keen" is that Clinton trails the top 5 Republican candidates.

I could care less.

One more 'today' thing: I just listened to Mott the Hoople "All the young dudes" CD over morning cofee. Man, what a great band. Never did see Mick on TV again, but if they rerun it during the Writer's Guild strike I'll tape it and send it to you. He was great. Nice bloke too.

One more 'today' thing: I just listened to Mott the Hoople "All the young dudes" CD over morning cofee. Man, what a great band. Never did see Mick on TV again, but if they rerun it during the Writer's Guild strike I'll tape it and send it to you. He was great. Nice bloke too.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Which Mick? Ronson or Ralphs?

While Hillary is the wife of one of the best Presidents, and certainly a great Senator in a short period of time, I have always felt that if people view her as a separate person, with a completely different skill set than her husband, she could have a problem that instead of being linked to her husband in being compared to him.

Hillary is clearly not as talented as her husband and is doing everything she can not to answer any questions. She has been caught feeding herself questions at public events. I have been seeing this as a real possibility for a long time, particularly because of her position on war and efforts to seal how involved she was during her husband's Presidency. If there was anything good, we know it would have been out long ago

I meant Ian Hunter. Freudian slip. I was just looking at the CD and Mick Ronson was the last name i guess I looked at in the credits.

I for one don't think she'll win the nomination. Too many people don't want Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton including me. I want substantial change in course like the other 78% of Americans who think the country is headed in the wrong direction.

However I won't pull the 'R' lever even if Ted Nugent sticks an assault rifle in my mouth in the voting booth. I'm sick of the GOP of today. Change course and get back to moderate, reasonable people as the majority in the RNC again and I'll consider it again.

"However I won't pull the 'R' lever " AU

...that says it all. I would truly be in a "R" or "D" quandary if my vote made the difference between an inevitable Obama or Hil presidency. I would have to pull the lever for Hil...which I will prob do in our primary.
And if Hil promises to immediately close the border and enforce the damn immigration laws I would really be torn between her and someone like Huckabee (if we get stuck with him).
I am confident she would not just cut and run from Iraq ,no matter what she makes you lefties believe.
So as I see it we would just have to ride out her domestic agenda until she makes the economy tank. That I think we could survive...painfully.

KERRING

How do you guys deflect about future economic boogiemen (Hils 'social programs') yet I never hear a peep about the egregious handling of our budget, massive debts and war spending?

Unless I've somehow been spirited away during a Twilight Zone episode, the budget was balanced, the economy strong, and projected surpluses enough to pay off the national debt in 10 years and shore up SS.

How do you know a liberal is frustrated?????












They resort to insults and name calling!

Unless I've somehow been spirited away during a Twilight Zone episode, the budget was balanced, the economy strong, and projected surpluses enough to pay off the national debt in 10 years and shore up SS.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY
* * * * * *

That isn't really true. What Clinton did was bring the Social Security program on-budget for the first time. With Social Security running at surplus (tax collection greater than benefits paid out), it appeared to make the rest of the budget balance. In fact, he would never have balanced the budget without using Social Security dollars to do so. Also, as soon as the tech bubble popped, everyone knew the deficit would balloon again as tax receipts from capital gains went from large taxable gains to tax-deductable losses. And that's exactly what did happen, when the tech bubble blew up starting in 2000.
The Republicans have been reprehensibly irresponsible on spending, but at least served to temper Clinton's worst instincts, and vice versa. But most of the celebrated Clinton budgets were smoke and mirrors, brought about by using Social Security excess funds.

"How do you know a liberal is frustrated?????"

They post on the DR, and forget to mention Bush?

But most of the celebrated Clinton budgets were smoke and mirrors, brought about by using Social Security excess funds.

In the same vein Reagan's tax cuts were passed on as higher state taxes and borrowing? Ever looked at the chart of national debt. That rocket trail during his term is the federal deficiet skyrocketing into the trillions for the first time in our history.

At least he had the sense to raise taxes - more than once - before he left office trying to balance the books.

BOWA

I have nothing against Rudy. If he wins so be it. I visited NY since the 70's. Manhattan's renaissance was pretty impressive. I'd rather have Obama for a major change in direction and a fresh start though.

I have nothing against Rudy. If he wins so be it. I visited NY since the 70's. Manhattan's renaissance was pretty impressive. I'd rather have Obama for a major change in direction and a fresh start though.

As I've said before -- Obama would be a much more difficult candidate for any of the Republicans to beat. I think he has a good shot of winning the nomination -- Hillary seems to be self-destructing -- she's too slick for her own good-- she been trying so hard to have all issues both ways that she is not going to be trusted on any issue at all pretty soon. S

Obama on the other hand has carved out a good place for himself among democratic moderates and the younger generation as an agent of real change. And Edwards is being trusted to carry the banner for the net roots and more farther Left of the party. That leaves Hillary courting the elderly and the poor and disenfranchised who she is promising the world too in the form of new governemnt programs and entitlements.

On the GOP side -- Rudy has played it real smart so far. He's carved out the GOP center for himself and only given lip-service to the far-right of the party. he expected that the other candidates would fight for the affections of the traditional & religious conservatives and weaken themsleves in the process and that is exactly what is happening. Rudy set expectations real low for him in the early states with few delegates to offer anyway. In the meantime, he put together an imprssive organization in all the big delegate states where he leads by huge numbers -- couple that with his mutually beneficial alliance with Huckabee -- and the prediction I made 8 months ago about Rudy/Huckabee 2008 is looking more and more like it could become a reality.

BOWA

It's possible Huckabee could do better than anyone thinks. He's about the only GOP candidate with the Christian Credentials. Romney won't get the evangelical vote. They consider Mormonism almost Satanic. Thompson..no chance.

If your ticket does come to fruition on problem may be the way this looks:

Giuliani-Huckabee. Kidding, but it kind of sounds like someone Jed Clampett lived down the road from in Kintuck before he moved to Beverly...Hills that is

Please, we need a third party.
The DemoRepublicrat party is killing the poor and the middle-class, at home and abroad.

I don't see how Zogby could be correct or that this poll could possibly be accurate. The last two elections were stolen and no one disputes Gore got the more popular vote and the polls all showed Bush way ahead. Considering the landscape I doubt of any republicans are gong to win unless they change their party affiliation. I've never voted Republican in my life but right now I would vote for Hillary if she is the nominee or most of the other dem contenders. I don't see anyone on the republican side that I would vote for over a dem except possibly Thompson.

"The last two elections were stolen and no one disputes Gore got the more popular vote..."

Siiiigh...another public school grad who doesn't know how elections work. Gore DID have more poplar vote but Bush had more electoral votes (it's not the FIRST time that has happened.) The U.S. Supreme Court stopped recounts in SELECTED counties in Florida. There could have been a recount in EVERY county, but that wouldn't have suited Gore's purpose. Recounts done in the SELECTED counties after Bush was inaugerated, done by several organizations, came up with Bush winning anyway. There was no "stolen" election. Everybody overlooks the fact that all of this would be academic if Gore had just won his own home state...which he COULDN'T do.

In the Bush/Kerry election, Kerry just plain ol' LOST. You need to get over it. Bush will be gone soon and we can both be glad.

"The last two elections were stolen and no one disputes Gore got the more popular vote..."

Time to get over that. I bet prohibition pissed you off too.

Over it.

It woulda been hell of a lot easier to "get over" if Bush had shown any kind of competence in the last seven years.

We've all seen the videos of his public speaking skills in the nineties and now. What the hell happened to the guy?

Ted, we can argue about Bush stealing elections, or Bush and public speaking. I can tell most don't want to talk about these poll results, so pick your poison. It's not like the next election will have any future effect, right?

I'm not arguing about it. Responding to comments above. I'm just glad Bush is almost gone, doubt we coulda survived an additional two years of him.

You, on the other hand, seem to think he's just fine. Sorry for you about that.

I'm sure the next election will have an effect. Whether or not it's already too late, is the question.

You, on the other hand, seem to think he's just fine. Sorry for you about that.
Posted by TedBaxter

Trust me Ted, he's been a huge fucking disapointment.

Wall, meeting writing

writing, that's where you belong, on that wall there

John Zogby: "All is fair in love and war, the centuries-old proverb states. Politics is not included, but given the way the game is played in modern-day America, maybe it should be. That's the sense I had again this morning watching Mark Penn, the chief political strategist for Democrat Hillary Clinton, denigrate our latest Zogby Interactive survey simply because it showed his client in a bad light. Penn made the contention on the MSNBC morning news program hosted by Joe Scarborough.

"Penn mischaracterized this latest online Zogby poll as our first interactive survey ever -- a bizarre contention, since we have been developing and perfecting our Internet polling methodology for nearly a decade, and since Penn's company has been quietly requesting the results of such polls from Zogby for years."

So...even the Clinton political strategist lies. Do you people ever get tired of being played like a drum? The Clinton spin machine puts out the "Bush stole the election" and you buy it "Bush Lost 2 Million Jobs" and you buy it, "The tax cuts will not help the economy" and you buy it, "We are losing in Iraq" and you buy it, "I never voted for it" and you buy it. "Bush Lied and Thousands died" and you buy it. And yet EVERY ONE of them is documented as being completely false.

Jeeze If I had to follow this group of pathological liars I do not know how I could function.

""The tax cuts will not help the economy"... is documented as being completely false."

With apologies to Lloyd Bentsen, if you let me write $4 trillion dollars in hot checks, I can give you the illusion of prosperity, too.

Let me ask you: if you get a dozen charge cards, and max them all out, have you helped you family's economy, or have you hurt it? Sure, that large-screen HDTV is nice, but you bought it completely on credit. Helped or hurt?

If at the start, 11% of your annual budget has to go for paying interest on your debt (never mind the principle), and at the end, 16.6% of your annual outlay has to be spent on paying interest, have you helped, or hurt?

"most of the celebrated Clinton budgets were smoke and mirrors, brought about by using Social Security excess funds."

The same smoke and mirrors Bush got to use, and even though the overcollections were greater under Bush than Clinton, Bush's deficits were the largest known to man since the dawn of time.

And in a time of ever-increasing federal budgets, we've gone from 11% annual outlay servicing the debt to 16.6%. A FIFTY PERCENT increase.

try these numbers on for size: (everything in " or ( I inserted)


Five-year cost of spending authorizations passed by the "Democratic lead" House this year:
$787,112,870,000.00*

Five-year cost of non-defense spending authorizations passed by the House this year:
$146,130,000,000.00** (Can we say socialism and redistribution of wealth?)

One-year cost of appropriations passed by the House this year:
FY 2007: $587,786,000,000.00 (50M is =.00000008%)
FY 2008: $124,157,000,000.00

This spending spree is brought to you by House Democrats, who passed the largest tax
increase in American history to fuel their spending ways:
Overall cost to American taxpayers: $392,000,000,000.00
Cost to individual American taxpayers: $3,026

And you call Republican's on fiscal conservatism?

" House Democrats, who passed the largest tax
increase in American history to fuel their spending ways: "

When? The last current tax code was passed without a single Democratic vote, and Republicans controlled both chambers for 6 years prior to Nov 2006.

"And you call Republican's on fiscal conservatism"

Republicans authored the three largest annual debts known to man since the dawn of time, and have added 50% to the debt burden while in control.

What's to "call"? Republicans are the party of fiscal recklessness. The facts speak for themselves.

The Democrat budget released today proposes the largest tax increase in history, $392.5 billion over five years, and will "hit working families and small businesses hardest," according to U.S. Rep. Dave Camp, a senior member of the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee.
In addition to higher marginal tax rates, which would raise taxes by $182 billion, the Democrat budget calls for:

A reduction of Child Tax Credit ($27 billion);

An increase in the Marriage Penalty ($13 billion); and,

An increase in the Death Tax ($91 billion).

To pay for massive spending increases, the Democrat budget also increases Capital Gains and Dividends Tax Rates to raise an additional $32.5 billion, and increases miscellaneous taxes by $47 billion to further pad federal coffers.

The Democrat budget increases taxes by wiping out tax cuts enacted under the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act Of 2001 (EGTRRA) and the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act Of 2003 (JGTRRA).


You and others have been so used by the Clinton machine and it has taken what used to be a good - middle of the road - party (DEMS especially the old Southern Democrats) into an Anti- American (Harry Reid waiving the white flag of surrender), Socialistic (Edwards would MANDATE public health care - Hillary would not MANDATE she would just not give you any other choice- so much for capitalism and freedom of choice) and Anti-God party.

Step back and see how many times any Dem party leader uses the words - "Freedom" - "Capitalism" and "God"

Foshaffer,

"The Democrat budget increases taxes by wiping out tax cuts enacted under the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act Of 2001 (EGTRRA) and the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act Of 2003 (JGTRRA). "

Are you aware the majority of those "tax increases" were proposed, written, and passed by Republicans? In the laws you cite, the Rs included sunset clauses. That's why taxes are going up: the Republicans wrote the tax increases into the bills, and Bush signed them into law.

It takes a lot of koolaide and a super-sized tinfoil hat to blame anyone but the authors of the law. But it's easier that way, isn't it?