There were couple of guys that went AWOL during the first 2 weeks of boot camp, one they brought back and he went on to graduate, one they recycled back to start over.

OORAH: How's Bob doing? Will you guys be together for Thanksging?
Tell him I said Hi!

Gee!! I wonder why?

Gee!! I wonder why?

Because they're pussies. They join knowing well that going to war is a possibility, but they want the benefits. They weren't conscripted. But when their number comes up they act surprised. "I didn't want this. I just wanted to good part". So they desert.

That's why

Goatman-
That's a pretty bold statement. When do you go back into combat?

When do you go back into combat?

Pretty bold, but true. I have not gone back into combat. When were you in the military?

You're right, oohrah -- big mistake on the AWOLer's part. The kid's gonna live like a fugitive until he turns himself in and takes his lumps.

Goatman-
When did I refer to members of the military who refuse to return to Iraq as "pussies"? It seems you have very clear views on this subject, having never served in a war zone yourself.

I agree with what you said, oohrah. My comment was directed at the ones who volunteer, then leave. If Bob's friend has a fear of the unknown, he'd be wise to make it known before signing up. Likewise, he must surely understand that his chances of dying are far greater in the military than as a civilian, so he should not sign up.

I think I would have much more sympathy for a deserter who was drafted, but for those who volunteer, I have none. They will not be able to back out of any other contract they sign in life either.

When did I refer to members of the military who refuse to return to Iraq as "pussies"?

I believe you owe me an answer, then you can ask a question. That's the way it works. I won't play by BuFfY bOoB's rules.

People desert for different reasons, many probably should not have been allowed to join to begin with, if not for lower standards.
I was in the Army from 99 - 03 and during my brief tenure most of the deserters (awol) kids had emotional issues and something would trigger the flight. Often a domestic occurrence would be the catalyst. I cant remember anyone bugging out for being scared. Emotional stress was usually it.

This war is tremendously difficult on our volunteer force. Constant deplyment is very difficult for anyone, let alone a kid with some "issues." We need to bring them all home and stop with the imperialism.

Goatman-
re: "...but for those who volunteer, I have none. They will not be able to back out of any other contract they sign in life either."

You're a real tough guy. I wish we all had balls the size of your vicarious ones.

having never served in a war zone yourself.

More bOoB antics. You made the claim. Prove it.

It's my lunch time. That'll give you some time to post your sources, coop.

Goatman-
All you have to say is that you're signing up tomorrow to replace the "pussies" who won't fight your war for you.

Enjoy your lunch. See ya around, Rambo.

No answers huh, coop? What a surprise. You and BuFfY bOoB -- walk out when you can't have your slanted field of play.

If I remember correctly, they send the FBI after you.

Kinda hard to hide from them.

Commonsense - you remember wrong. The FBI does not go after deserters. No one does. Its passive, the military waits till the deserter pops up for speeding or something minor and them brings them back to "out process" the person and discharge. Basically the equivalent of a bench warrant.

I was just listening to our local 10 p.m. news.
The newscaster said the Army defines a "deserter" as someone who has been "absent without leave for more than 30 days."

errr, isn't that exactly what President Bush did during most of 1972- 1973 during his service with the Texas Air National Guard when he up and left to go to Alabama in order to assist one of Papa Bush's buddies in a political campaign? Yes.

"absent without leave for more than 30 days."

The newscaster isn't 100% correct. Actually, that's unauthorized absence.

So, suppose Goatman tell us -- was Bush's absence for almost a year from the Texas Air National Guard "authorized"? You'd be one of the only ones who know the answer if you answer that question.

I have no idea whether his absence was authorized or not. I've heard him say it was, his detractors say it wasn't. To be honest, I haven't found the issue worthy of study.

If there's a bench warrant out for his arrest for desertion, I reckon the authorities know where to find him.

...To be honest, I haven't found the issue worthy of study.

Ergo, one should then refrain from commenting on the issue. *grin*

Ergo, one should then refrain from commenting on the issue. *grin*

I wasn't commenting on the issue. I was correcting the newscaster on his definition of desertion.

oh.

Goat -- In the Navy, if an active duty sailor is "UA" (unauthorized absent) for more than 30 days, then they can be charged with desertion. I believe it is the command's discretion, but a command has to report its number of deserters to someone. I once had a youngster desert to help his family back in Nicaragua, and after 10 months he came back to the ship, we did an Article 32 investigation where he told me how he had inadvertently gotten himself involved with the contras. I immediately ended the Article 32 and sent him up to NCIS. But when he came back from his long UA status we had to report him as a gain to the ship's company all over again.

Regarding Bush's absence, it is controversial, but usually as a guardsman or reservist under inactive duty, the number of days of absence is the two days per month. 30 days absence, would require a person to miss 15 months of drills. Because it is under a different set of rules, guard and reserve absence from drills is usually administratively handled, with admin separation possible after the first four days of unexcused absences.

In the Vietnam era, some guard and reserve units were administered in a pretty clubby way; absences and attendance records were fudged a bit too much and an inspector general's crackdown followed that has really tightened up the rules. Today, any CO who deliberately lets a false muster report get his signature could find himself in jail for defrauding the government. Even without the Iraq War, Dubya would never be able to pull off the overly flexible guard attendance that was attributed to him when he was in the ANG.

meanwhile my adoptive daughter has a $30k offer several weeks ago to sign up for a 6 year hitch...with lots of free school in the bargain.

I asked how much money she would need to have to change her mind about enlisting?

She said "$7 grand within 2 months."


Talk about blackmail...

As an 18 year member of the Army Reserves and a
personnel specialist, the rule was if you missed
nine (9) drills in a 12 month period you were
processed for Active Duty until about 1978. After
that time you were processed as an "unsatisfactory
participant" and transfered to the Ready Reserve
(inactive) until your contracted time was up.
Much paperwork of course, all of which became part of your record.
ron up north SFC(Ret)

A deal at twice the price. This isn't enlisting to defend one's country. This is about becoming cannon fodder for a war of acquisition, and a poorly run one at that.

Her life is worth a few week's pay, isn't it Bani?

Regards,
etc.

A deal at twice the price. This isn't enlisting to defend one's country. This is about becoming cannon fodder for a war of acquisition, and a poorly run one at that.


Her life is worth a few week's pay, isn't it Bani?

Regards,
etc.

Posted by ThePerfectStorm


well, she wouldn't sleep with a 26 year old Mexican guy who made $15k a week several months ago & lots of promises ~ because she didn't love him...so I'm not sure what her value structure is about if she wants to enlist for money & benefits for life (yes, she has a 3 year old adorable daughter & is herself only 19 but very, very bi-lingual)

Certainly her mom will raise Cain over this before the 2 months are up:>)

It's popular to put down the military's benefits since people hate Bush so much. But remember -- it is an option for people. If it's not the option for you, fine -- don't take it. But don't put it down. It might be the right thing for others.

When I got out of HS, neither I nor my family could afford college. I did exceptionally well on the Military's ASFAB (or something like that) tests. I was offered a year of electronic schooling in the Navy.

LSS -- when I got out and applied that knowledge to civilian life, I did quite well. I make twice what my sister does with a college degree.

I think it is quite selfish to try to rob someone of that option because of your own views. I'm glad I didn't have naysayers like some on this thread try to convince me not to join. I doubt seriously I would have gotten the education I needed to be where I am today.

"I think it is quite selfish to try to rob someone of that option because of your own views. I'm glad I didn't have naysayers like some on this thread try to convince me not to join. I doubt seriously I would have gotten the education I needed to be where I am today."

Posted by goatman


well, in the Civil War ~ the rich folks could save their sons from the draft in the North...so I'm not sure yet exactly what is best for her long term for I respect what the armed forces have to offer (& serving one's country used to be somewhat honorable ~ before GW, LBJ & Nixon came along), but if $7k is the number now then how much is it going to be next time she decides to do something like this again?

She said she wants the $7k for some kind of investment...perhaps in the Rich Dad, Poor Dad frame of mind she hinted (yes, his latest DVD was her last birthday present from me)

I think the reasons they are deserting is because the cat is out of the bag. Nobody wants to fight and die for oil or some corporations profits. Ask any vet coming back from Iraq if they really thought they were fighting for or defending the US. I have a son in law still serving, two nephews in the marines saw saw two tours and my cousin served two tours in the army. Not one of them thinks we are there for just reasons and not one thinks the war is winnable whatever that might mean.

High desertion rate?

Bez Prablem

Grant some walking time to short-timers currently incarcerated and see if the Hessians have an opening in their appointment book.

Better solution: Don't let capricious, hubristic jerkoffs drive this country off the cliff into wars we have no business fighting. (Particularly wars that we start.)

I think they are deserting because they have aspirations to become president.

Yeppers Danni just take a gander at Dubya's "Record"

Larry Mohr

I think they are deserting because they have aspirations to become president.

Posted by danni at 2007-11-17 08:35 AM


I think you've got it backwards. You have to come home and protest the war and accuse all those still serving of being just like Ghengis Khan, then you have to throw away your medals and keep them at the same time.

There's another thread that shed's light on the subject and the results.

What does "shed's light" mean? Is Crispy Bacon overdone?

But the question not even being asked these days is what happens if we're EVER really attacked. Six years of perpetrating bushy screw-ups in the Middle East have surely drained our armed forces of basic bloodlust, of Do Or Die For The Old Red White and Bloo. herm

They're all in Alabama working for the GOP.

hey, that excuse worked for Bush!

I think it is quite selfish to try to rob someone of that option because of your own views. I'm glad I didn't have naysayers like some on this thread try to convince me not to join. I doubt seriously I would have gotten the education I needed to be where I am today.

Posted by goatman at 2007-11-17 04:25 AM | Reply

Yeah. Hanging out on Drudge 24/7 is quite the life, Goat-dick.

If military recruiters were not lying their asses off in the first place about how wonderful and financially lucrative the military is in the first place, maybe this wouldn't be a problem. Also, if the military were not continually lowering its standards to allow in high school drop outs and low level criminals, it might also not have this problem. And most importantly, if we had an Administration in the WH for the last six years which gave a fuck about the well being of our soldiers this certainly would not be a problem.

In the late 1990's desertion in time of war was still considered a hanging offense under UCMJ. Anyone know if this still the case. Don't bother with the stupid comments on this one.

In the 70's they would still take kids who had made a jail or the Army deals with the criminal justice system.

I think both kids that went AWOL at the beginning of boot camp were both in this category.

There was another guy, big black guy with HUGE arms, chest, neck etc, we called him Herc and nobody fucked with him at all. About the 2nd week we were in a classroom for instruction and he was sitting about 8 rows behind me, apparently there was a verbal exchange between Herc and this little dweeby kid who was sitting in front of him, who told Herc "take your best shot" (really dumb) then turned his back on him (even dumber) Herc stood up, folded the metal chair, raised it over his head and brought it down with everything he had on said dweby kids head.
I didn't see it, this was all told to us later by guys who were sitting where they could see.

7 drill sergeants immediatly rushed Herc (and these guys were all Vietnam Vets and fresh out of the bush)the rest herded us outside by screaming profantities at us at the top of their lungs, lst thing I saw before I went out the door, and into 2 hrs of pushups for punishment, was 2 DI's down, one bent over holding his face and another being lifted and thrown by Herc.

Never saw Herc or the dweeby kid again.

Commonsense - you remember wrong. The FBI does not go after deserters. No one does. Its passive, the military waits till the deserter pops up for speeding or something minor and them brings them back to "out process" the person and discharge. Basically the equivalent of a bench warrant.

Posted by captainOface at 2007-11-17 12:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

I'm not sure how it works now, but when I was in (93-98), we had a guy go awol from the ship. Three weeks later, I (and a bunch of us) were being questioned by an NCIS agent along with an FBI agent as to where he might have gone.

I think the FBI guy was there because of our security clearances.