Meet the new boss...same as the old boss.
(except lower on the Bush Crony scale)

To continue the use of song quotes:

Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was.

Congress has failed us once again.

Wait...I thought that Harry Reid was going to "draw a line in the sand" over this issue!

Oh, wait, he says that about everything.

Putz.

I'm with RightOcenteR, I think Harry should have put up more of a fight on this one. We are torturing people, people! Didn't we convict other leaders of war crimes for this particular activity in the past?

I'm with RightOcenteR, I think Harry should have put up more of a fight on this one. We are torturing people, people! Didn't we convict other leaders of war crimes for this particular activity in the past?

Damn Dirty Double info Discemination

The Democrats were almost all in high praise for Mr. Mukasey, when he was first selected for the job of Attorney General. Much to there credit after the hearings the saw and heard answers that left them with questions. Unlike the Republicians who just went along even though some of them surely had to have some questions.

TORTURE....and his answer to those questions were enough to disqualify...

All talk -- no action!

Obama, Hillary, and John McCain didn't even vote.

The Democratic Party leadership has sold out the party...

I mean, when you look at Republicans you know that they are Fascists...

Now the Dems are in lockstep...

This is not you father's America...

Vote Ron Paul '08

Poor Harry R, he just can't get anyone on board. LOL

Obama, Hillary, and John McCain didn't even vote.


Posted by Bowa at 2007-11-09 01:25 PM |


That's the same strategy used by Kerry and Edwards while campaigning for the whitehouse. Are you surprised?

TORTURE....and his answer to those questions were enough to disqualify..

Spud was holding his breath waiting fer Dumbya to pick a new AG who would see water-boarding as the shameful and illegal act of torture that it is but after turning blue and almost passing out Spud is haff to give it up as a lost cause.(/snark>

No surprises here, unfortunately.

Certainly not pleasant ones.

Be Well.

Didn't we convict other leaders of war crimes for this particular activity in the past?

Yup.

At the end of WWII, fer example, a Japanese officer was given 15 years hard labour for the heinous crime of... wait fer it... WATERBOARDING a US soldier.

Why it was illegal in 1945 and is "legal" today is a real stretch.

Oh right, "Enemy Combatents" aren't entitled to any rights at all.

Spud keeps fergetting that fer some reason.

Prolly cos it's a load of malarkey!

...or as Spud likes to say ...BUSHIT!!

Be Well.

TORTURE!!!!

OMG, waterboarding? Whatever. You people have no clue what torture is.

Cheers,
Walt

You people have no clue what torture is.

Do clue us in, Walt.

Did ya learn from a book, perhaps?

Be Well.

Walt Pray Tell if it isn't Torture then why in the hell did We Prosecute Japanese for doing the same thing. Oh I get it because we do it it's not torture. Bunch of shit if You ask Me.

Larry Mohr

OMG, waterboarding? Whatever. You people have no clue what torture is.

I know there's a line you don't cross.

I know that everything past that line is wrong.

I know that scared little shits and despots move the line when it suites them.

-You people have no clue what torture is.


If he has been reading Tadley's posts, then Walt knows torture.

When you have your fingernails ripped out, that is torture, when you get beheaded that is torture, when you have your balls electrocuted, that is torture.

Watching CNN, torture.

Faking a drowning is not torture. It is a mean and unpleasant trick, but it is not torture. When you were a kid and your older sibling held your head underwater in the pool, was that torture?

Cheers,
Walt

suites=suits

At the end of WWII, fer example, a Japanese officer was given 15 years hard labour for the heinous crime of... wait fer it... WATERBOARDING a US soldier.

That's a lie.

The "water torture" the japanese officer was convicted of doing involved "forcing" water down the throat and nose and it was done in conjunction with beatings and burning prisoners with cigarettes as well as stealing red cross care packages meant for the American POW's.

On the other hand, the US technique of "Waterboarding" involves pouring a small amount of water over a prisoners face that has been covered with a cloth or a piece of plastic wrap with a hole in it.

And in a previous post of mine on a another thread, there is a link to a video of a journalist who subjects himself to "waterboarding". There's no way someone can look at that video and call it "torture". I should say there is no way a reasonable person could look at it and call it torture.

Here is what some smart dude has to say about it:

"First, Judge Wallach clarifies the nature of what is called waterboarding:

That term is used to describe several interrogation techniques. The victim may be immersed in water, have water forced into the nose and mouth, or have water poured onto material placed over the face so that the liquid is inhaled or swallowed. The media usually characterize the practice as "simulated drowning." That's incorrect. To be effective, waterboarding is usually real drowning that simulates death. That is,
the victim experiences the sensations of drowning: struggle, panic, breath-holding, swallowing, vomiting, taking water into the lungs and, eventually, the same feeling of not being able to breathe that one experiences after being punched in the gut. The main difference is that the drowning process is halted. According to those who have studied waterboarding's effects, it can cause severe psychological trauma, such as panic attacks, for years."

the same feeling of not being able to breathe that one experiences after being punched in the gut.

BIG DEAL!!!

Cheers,
Walt

Spud,

Read my post. This guy says it is no worse that a punch in the gut?!?

Hypothetically speaking for arguments sake, please allow me the liberty to ask you a few questions.

1. If I walked up to you and punched you one good time, right on the kisser, is that torture?

the same feeling of not being able to breathe that one experiences after being punched in the gut.

BIG DEAL!!!

IT IS A BIG DEAL.

That's wot you took away from that entire paragraph?

Spud been looking into the practise of waterboarding.

It has a long and not so illustrious history of being used by folk like the Spanish Inquisistion, The Khmer Rouge, The Japs in WWII, the Gestapo, North Vietnamese, The French in Algiers etc etc ad nauseum.

People lose control of their bowels and bladder.
People choke and vomit and sometime die choking on their own vomit.
People have permanent brain damage due to oxygen starvation.
People Die.

If it happened to you you'd be singing a different tune pretty damn quick.

Well, if you survived, that is.

Be Well.

PS: The USA is the most well armed and powerful country in the world not some shit-hole third world fleabag Flintstone wannabe country and when the most powerful nation on earth starts making torture official policy (rather than just using it occasionally as the CIA did through proxies under Reagan) then it's A MASSIVE DEAL!

Alliances are shifting away from the US globally due in no small measure to this change in national identity.

Yer economy is about to go down the shitter due to the above fact plus the fact that the efforts in Iraq are unsustainable in the long term.

Still think it's NO BIG DEAL?

What is unreasonable is that Spud would tie the hands of our government during wartime and put thousands of Americans at greater risk.

"waterboarding" is not torture, but "psy-ops" and it has been proven to be effective. ""In the case of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed," said Ross, "the information was very valuable, particularly names and addresses of people who were involved with al Qaeda in this country and in Europe. And in one particular plot, which would involve an airline attack on the tallest building in Los Angeles, known as the Liberty Tower." www.humanevents.com


Posted by Bowa at 2007-11-09 06:24 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

I find Lokisfur aka Bowa to declare that not practicing Torture nor demanding their Government not Torture is tying the hands of the Government in a time of War. If one does not hold their Country to a higher standard then they have lost the "War" When one advocates the same methods the enemy uses then how can You declare Yourself better than they. In fact When You lower Yourself to the supposed enemy You have given them the win that You claim You are seeking. Nice try once again Lokisfur aka Bowa.

Larry Mohr

"Hypothetically speaking. . .If I walked up to you and punched you one good time, right on the kisser, is that torture?"

No! It should be SOP. If nothing else, it'll show the savages the depth of our committment to the protections customarily afforded people in a free and democratic society, broaden their understanding of the term "humane treatment."

Now, hypothetically speaking, since you've had a good wack at my kisser, do you mind if if I smash you in the crotch with a sledgehammer and take you for a ride on the waterboard?

Dumbass.

What is unreasonable is that Spud would tie the hands of our government during wartime and put thousands of Americans at greater risk

It's an elective war, Bowa.

Bush deserves the title of War President the same way Elvis deserved his black belt.

Be Well.

...the Liberty Tower

Spud can't prove that this plot was real or made up.

Either can Bowa.

Spud I appreciate your comments.

Why wont you answer the question? It is a simple question I think.

-Walt

When it comes to speaking out against torture, "Beastiality pervert aka Larrymohr" who publicly desires to sexually abuse innocent animals is a hypocrite.

Thanks for your comments Raoul, very nice thoughts.

Cheers,
Walt

Hypothetically speaking. . .If I walked up to you and punched you one good time, right on the kisser, is that torture?"

Hell no.

Spud'd prolly smack you one back.

How that relates to the question of torture is uncertain.

If you were to strap Spud to a board and start punching Spud repeatedly all the while yelling questions then it'd be a form of torture but nothing quite so bad as Waterboarding.

Torture is morally indefensible.

Waterboarding is torture.

Period.

Be Well.

PS: In South America they would actually just hang you upside down by yer feet and dip you into a barrell full of human feces and urine fer a coupla minutes then pull you up.

Ask a question.

Rinse. Repeat.

That's torture too, btw.

There is no way you can look at the practise of waterboarding and call it anything other than torture. Torture is counter productive in most cases. KSM fer example was tortured to the point wherre he just started making shit up to get it to stop thus throwing all of his information into doubt.

And you know this? how?
I posted a link the other day about the waterboarding of KSM and the article stated he was under the duress of waterboarding for one and a half minutes.
It also stated that he sang like a bird afterwards.
It is not possible that you are writing history is it?
Also the article stated that waterboarding is used only in high profile cases.
And not to often at that.
Post a link to your claim so I can have a look.

rwd

Spud,

Would expect you to swing back first of all. Why didn't you just say "hell no" to begin with if that is what you thought?

My Mr. Smart Guy that I don't know says:

eventually, the same feeling of not being able to breathe that one experiences after being punched in the gut.

I have nearly drowned and it sucked, and I would much rather take a shot to the face or even gut. The thought of drowning is scary which is why it is effective.

I do not care if it causes them psychological problems. Give them some Prozak and call me in the morning.

I do not think we should torture people, but pouring some water on a face is not torture.

-Walt

Post a link to your claim so I can have a look.

Spud'll do you even one better.

Spud'll start a thread.

The torture of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was so brutal that even his interrogators still suffer today. Mayer writes:

During interrogations, the former agency official said, officers worked in teams, watching each other behind two-way mirrors. Even with this group support, the friend said, Mohammeds interrogator "has horrible nightmares. He went on, "When you cross over that line of darkness, its hard to come back. You lose your soul. You can do your best to justify it, but it's well outside the norm. You cant go to that dark a place without it changing you." He said of his friend, He's a good guy. It really haunts him. You are inflicting something really evil and horrible on somebody.

WALT --

Are you my favorite "mercenary" come back to DR? If so, how are you? I don't remember seeing you post for a long time. Good to see you back here again.

L.A. cops like to put the cuffs on at the excruciating stage of tightness, and then drive around the neighborhood asking questions ...

It's Bush's fault.

Cops in Germany tap your elbow, wrist, collarbone, hip with a baton when they ask questions.

The Japanese put you in a cell where you can't stand up and no level place to sit down. They tap a boney area if they catch you asleep during the day, and won't let you even move without permission.

I understand the RCMP can be pretty unpleasant during their questioning, too.

Forget Great Britain, specially as concerns terrorist Irish!

Then there are countries like Turkey, Syria, Iran, that don't need to question you, they just cut off your hand or stone you to death -- guilty as charged ...

We, the USA, are the pussies of this world ...

Cali___ I have not decided yet. Am testing the waters. Why don't you start a post about immigration and we can go off!!!

-Walt

Cali___ I have not decided yet. Am testing the waters. Why don't you start a post about immigration and we can go off!!!

-Walt

Posted by Walt at 2007-11-09 06:51 PM |

Great to see you back. How's Iraq? You still there or working in another country? As for the immigration thread -- suppose you start one and then I'll introduce you to one of our newer posters -- Moder8 -- and the two of you two can go round and round on the subject. *grin*

correction -- "the two of you two" should have left off last "two"

Spud,

What is the "harshest" thing we can do to try to get info from terrorists?

If you were in charge, how far is far enough? When would you stop the interrogations?

-Walt

Cali,

Am in SC, have been for last year. Am heading to Afghanistan Dec 7.

"WALT"....I have an Idea, Lets you and I get in touch and make arrangements for you to be WATERBOARDED and post it on u-tube. I get to bring the fellows that will do the deed and the amount of time you will be waterboarded...Come on after all if it is not torture, what do you have to lose???????

Thanks for the post Celisary.

Cheers,
Walt

Walt --

Wish you weren't going to Afghanistan -- that whole part of the world seems to be heating up into full war mode. But if ya gotta go, what else can you do. They won't even let you stay home long enough to be here for Christmas? Well, stay safe and don't be such a stranger on here.

Cali,

You got my email and blog site. Keep me posted on the immigration thing.

-Walt

"What is the "harshest" thing we can do to try to get info from terrorists?"

It is my understanding that the drugs can do the most permanent damage -- like having operation after operation done with anesthetic.

Anyway, I'll bet there are more damaged (and innocent) victims of police brutality than there are military prisoners, even of the CIA.

More for other countries around the world ... we are the 'nice' ones of almost all the rest of the world ... Canada or New Zealand may be more 'nice' for the Anglo Saxon crowd.

You got my email and blog site. Keep me posted on the immigration thing.

-Walt

I'm kinda burned out on the immigration issue right now. It's one of the main 3 issues (Iraq, health insurance, illegal immigration) that's going to swing the election one way or the other. Look at the law Oklahomajust passed last week on illegal immigration -- the toughest law in the nation -- so you can see how widespread the problem is.

Thanks to Bush (who has allowed more illegals to come into this country during his term in office than during the terms of all the presidents before him) we literally have open borders and absolutely no enforcement of immigration laws.

Bush wants open borders as that's part of his agenda for his "North American Union" (merging the U.S. with Mexico and Canada) so between him -- and all the open border zealots that make up almost all of the Democrat party -- Americans trying to preserve our nation's sovereignty will have a real fight on their hands. I know you like Bush but -- well, I won't even go there now. Should be an interesting election in 2008.

It is my understanding that the drugs can do the most permanent damage

That would appear to be the case.

Cali,

After seeing what Bush has done with the Law of the Sea Treaty and illegal immigration, you can say whatever you like. I would love to see his ass impeached and jailed.

Yep.

-Walt

Walt --

After seeing what Bush has done with the Law of the Sea Treaty and illegal immigration, you can say whatever you like. I would love to see his ass impeached and jailed.

Yep.

Way to go!

Here is the best website around for keeping up on the issue of illegal immigration. it covers what's happening in every state and all the political issues and it's updated every day. Bookmark it if you're interested in keeping up on illegal immigration. It gets thousands of hits on that website everyday. The politicians and talk show hosts, etc. all use it for info on the issue. I see illegal immigration as just one of the tentacles of the NAU octopus (sp?) for lack of a better analogy and reason why Bush -- the globalist -- has totally betrayed our nation. imoh.

here's the website --

Thanks for the link and I will have you know that totally agree that he is a globalist with no concern for this nation. He has to go.

We will still not agree on Iraq or healthcare, but on this, we will agree.

-Walt

When it comes to speaking out against torture, "Beastiality pervert aka Larrymohr" who publicly desires to sexually abuse innocent animals is a hypocrite.


Posted by Bowa at 2007-11-09 06:33 PM | Reply | Flag


Is this your new trump card when you can't argue your way out of a wet paper bag? pos.

Sad isn't it Alexandrite. Just shows Me what kind of "Person" Lokisfur is.

Larry Mohr