Sooooo..... Obama's latest tactic is to copy Bubba and claim to be more Clinton than a Clinton?

Oh yeah, that'll work!

Damn...from the headline I thought he was schooling
Obama on how NOT to leave his DNA evidence around.

Impeachment 101.

Maybe he and Bill are cousins.

just glad that I cant get ms on the tube...

here is all they will say..

bush sucks

raise taxes

I was for it before I was against it so dont blame me

bush sucks

raise taxes

bush sucks

lets let all of the illegals in and vote

bush sucks

raise taxes

"I know you are, but what am I?""


and obama better get it rolling.....

is the hillary train already too far out of the station?????????????

He will not just get a BJ from one intern, but copulate with 3 of them all at the same time. He WILL inhale.

It won't just be on the dress, it will be in they're eye, in they're hair, and runnin down they're cracks.

And when Rush asks him about his relations with interns, he will promptly tell rush to shove it up his fat ass and leave the interview. And while the national enquirer will sell millions of papers on the subject, no investigation will occur, because banging your interns is perfectly legal. :p

Banging the guy in the next stall is perfectly legal too, but oh man we gonna have a good laugh about that.

zzzzzz...wake me when it's over

Obama needs to come out swinging at Clinton.

Corky, Obama is already more like Clinton '92 than Hillary ever will be.

Bowa - that's what you want, but Obama is too smart for that. He will talk about the Clinton era as that of the past, but he's not going to "swing" at Hillary. He will emphasise his new approach, how he isn't part of the party establishment. He will not get personal but he has to re-energize the idea that Hillary has not won yet, and now is close to the time when people are beginning to get interested.

Edwards - "College for everyone"
Billary - "More taxes for everyone"
Hussein - "Praise Jesus"
Biden - "Why am I still here?"
Richardson - "I should be a repub"
Elf - "Just call Fred Thomspon's wife a trophy wife, not mine"

Hillary is a buzzsaw.

And the other candidates think they are running against George Bush.

Hillary is just pulling away from th pack and we are only 18 minutes into the debate.

Hillary ain't going anywhere. Bowa you are full of shit.

Obama is too long winded. he reminds me of Thompson.

Booooring.

I like how Richardson claimed he had more foreign policy experience because he got North Korea to release 6 corpses of american soldiers a few months ago.



And how about that Kucinich -- he not only would try and prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon -- but nuclear energy too.

LOL

Edwards keeps telling us there is a very clear choice between the candidates -- doesn't seem like there is a clear distinction at all betwee the candidates.

Edwards took the first shot at Hillary suggesting she's a liar and all over the place in her positions.

1st break. And hillary got the last word right before it.

She gets bonus points for that.

Round 1 to Hillary. with edwards 2nd, Obama 3rd.

Comic relief goes to Kucinich and richardson for their comments about corpses and nuclear energy.

Edwards and Obama are tag teaming Hillary on her inconsistencies and political plays.

They are quite correct to continue to needle her on her Iran vote.

Kucinich is looking more substantial than Spud has ever seen him before at the previous debates.

All in all this is turning into an interesting debate that is standing out from previous ones because all the kid gloves have been left off-stage.

Spud luffed Edwards "Always be in Tell the Truth mode" backslap at Hillary as opposed to Primary v. General Election modes.

Be Well.

Why is Obama calling Hillary "Hillary" instead of "Senator Clinton"?

Obama scored big on the Hillary's refusal to release her archival records while first lady -- yet claiming that tenure forms much of her experience to be president.

Obama is kicking her ass now.

Edwards is piling on Hillary now.

It's about time. They go after her.

Point to Obama on 8 more years of the same back and forth bickering and partisan sniping that we've endured for years.

Edwards is really going after Hillary.

Is there anyboy else invited to this debate except Clinton, Edwards, or Obama?

bonus points to Obama for his candor in admitting that most of his experience is legisltaive instead of trying to lie and fluff up his resume like Hillary did.

Richardson coming to Hillary's rescue -- how cute.

Obama mentioning "important" ethics reform like cutting away free dinners for congressmen.

These folks are BILLIONAIRES on $175K salaries and he mentions free dinners and gifts.

whatever.

Richardso says he can bring people together -- but he can't even bring that toupe together with his head.

Is Dodd trying to imitate JFK's voice?

Quoting Rudy on the "experience" question to Hill?

Hill scores points with her Rudy and "wrong type of experience" rejoinder.

"35 years on both end of Pennsylvania Avenue"

Fair enuff.

Why aren't the archives open?

"Cos they are moving and are becoming available"

But Bubba put a ban on till 2012?

Oops!

Obama scores points by saying that the BushCo admin is the most secretive and Hil shouldn't go down that road.

American Gov works for private interests and corporations?

Big Points fer Obama there.

Why are the GOP fixated on Hil?

Edwards sez it's cos they wanna run against her.

Strewth!

Edwards sez that Hil has recieved the most amount of money from Big Pharma, the Big Insurers and the MIC and that is worrisome.

Spudpoints fer Edwards.

Hil mentions no bid Halliburton contracts and "reigning in the MIC".

Making the right noises.

Obama on the experience question (The Rudy)

Barack sez Hil talks the talk but fails to walk the walk and points to his experience attempting to bring some ethics back into the political process (w/ Russ Feingold)

Biden sez "Can't we all get along?"

Spud sez STFU this is too serious to play softball.

Biden is the "only CEO in this race"

No points fer that.

TBC.

Be Well.

Funny how Dodd brings up how important electability is considering he is not electable.

The GOP debate had a lot more funny zingers and good soundbites at this point in the debate.

None of these dems seem to have a sense of humor.

Kucinich has a hot wife. How can she stand listening to him all the time.

Biden gave you some humor, Bowa. How'd you like it?

Absolutely! finally something funny.

Biden gets the first laughs.

At the xpense of Rudy.

LOL

That means More GOP votes for Rudy.

The GOP attacked Hillary

The dems attack Rudy


Seems like the stage is set for Rudy vs Hillary in 2008

Hillary is angry now - she's been hurt a bit by Obama and Edwards

Thanks to these funcking assholes and their stupid little debate it took me an hour and a half to get home from Penn Hospital today... now they could run on a platform of giving me millions of dollars and I would still vote for the other guy.

In other Philadelphia news, Garret Reid, son of Eagles head coach Andy Reid was arrested again... Both his sons are sitting in jail cells tonight.

That means More GOP votes for Rudy.

Why? Because they'll feel sorry for him?


I mean, I feel sorry for him, but I'm not gonna vote for him.

Bush, Bush, Bush,

Didn't they get the memo -- Bush is not running for President in 2008

"Everybody on this stage is against privatization" -- barack Obama

That soundbite will be a rallying cry for the GOP

Dodd tries his best by calling himself the best of the Bi-Partisan and has a 26 year history of reforming DC.

Edwards thinks the power should reside with the people not the elites and the lobbyists.

He is completely correct.

"Don't turn yer back on the incompetence and corruption in DC and leave it to yer grandkids"

Spud points fer Edwards.

Kucinich "I'll trash NAFTA"

Spudponts au go-go.

Let's get practical! Good stuff Denny!

Nice shot from Biden...

Rudy is the least qualified man to run fer POTUS since Dumbya!

Rudy don't have a right to talk about experience!

The crowd is luffing it! So's Spud!

This debate RAWKS!!

Wowsers even Tim Russert is nailing Hil on her inconsistency in terms of SS.

That was a bit of a suprise.

Hil's dancing as fast as she can.

There are no weak sisters on that stage.

Any one of these folks are capable of wiping the floor with any of their GOPher opposition.

TBC.

Be Well.

More Rudy talk.

alllright.

Hillary talkin bi-partisan

not good.

"Everybody on this stage is against privatization" -- Barack Obama

Privitisation is a stone around the neck of the American people.

For Profit Health care is obscene.

Privitised Prisons are madness incarnate.

Private fucking Armies might actually end democracy in the USA!!

GOPhers wanna trash anti-privitisation talk.

Go to asholes!!

Spud is look forward to that conversation!

Be Well.

None of these dems seem to have a sense of humor

They are connecting to the righteous anger that exists in the heart of the average American.

The GOPhers are so disconnected and insulated and safe that they think they can afford to crack jokes.

This is the most serious election in the history ofhte USA.

Figure it out or fall off the end of the political earth.

Be Well.

Obama took a lame shot at Romney.

Good answer by Obama -- he brought race into the debate in an organic way -- not forced or insincincere.

Bonus points to him for getting the last word in before the break.

Round 2 to Obama, 2nd to Biden, 3rd a tie between Hillary and edwards

Biden rocks. I've been most impressed with him and Richardson this evening thus far. Too many questions are going to the "frontrunners."

This is the most serious election in the history ofhte USA

Wasn't that what people said about 2004?

Spuds has on his democratic glasses again. Sees only what he wishes for instead of truth. Says dems will wipe floor with repubs, etc.

Yeah, Just like they did with Nixon twice, Reagan twice, Bush Sr. once, and George W. Twice.

I guess getting your asses kicked and teeth knocked out somehow means you really won. Try asking president Gore and Kerry.

Hell maybe Hillary should go ahead and write her victory speech and then let it slip out to the media. Then when she goes down in flames you can all say you were cheated and disenfranchised!

They are connecting to the righteous anger that exists in the heart of the average American.

You see right into their hearts can you? Keep telling yourself that.

Actually they really don't have a sense of humor (other than Biden).


This is the most serious election in the history ofhte USA.

Are you Sean Hannity?

Luffed Barack at the end there before the break.

Basically saying that the GOPhers are acting like Nicolson in "A Few Good Men".

They don't think the American public can "handle the truth".

They are wrong to think this fer many reasons.

They are just rationalising their lies and their bad behaviour with such idiotic undemocratic BS.

Folk were saying that "America isn't ready to elect a black man with a funny sounding name"

Truth is some Americans aren't ready for the possibility but their numbers are tiny and shrinking every day.

And... we're back!

Be Well.

Energy?

What a softball question that does nothing to help differentiate the candidates -- they all will agree with each other.

Edwards talking about conservation is pretty funny given his electric bill each month.

Obama blames 30% of the price on oil on "rhetoric" about Iraq.

Audience tilts head to left in unison wondering what the hell he's talking about.

Kucinich is still accusing America of stelaing Iraq's oil.

Yawn.

Don't you think if we were gonna steal it, we would have gotten it by now?

Did Richardson buy Howard Cosell's toupe on ebay?

Dodd just praised Bush

Gimme more of that

Edwards gets thrown a softball question to let him talk about katrina

lame questions this round so far

Hillary is full of shit. AMT is doing what they really did intend for it to do. Proven by the fact that they won't do anything about it.

Oil prices went up with Iran's sanction talk. Oops.

It's now 91 bucks a barrel.

Hillary the dissembler. She doesn't want to just say, "we need to raise taxes"

Now she falls back on that old standby -- class warfare.

Russert presses her on raising taxes and she deflects.

poor charlie Rangel-- nobody wants to sign on to his plan

:-(

Don't you think if we were gonna steal it, we would have gotten it by now?

Why would you think ExxonMobil was gonna pass the savings on to you?

Obama giving his "chicken in every pot" speech now

Russert sucks. *cough cough*

Kucinich is right about the gutless dem party.

Kucinich . ...the champion of the angry, socialist paranoid netroots.




but he has a really hot wife.

"redistribute the money upwards"

He's right.

IMPEACHMENT OF BUSH MENTIONED AT 9:33 EST

by Kucinich

"Hillary is full of shit. AMT is doing what they really did intend for it to do"

Um, Eb, no it's not. The Long-Term Cap Gains rate reduction to 15%, as well as the dividend rate reduction to 15% undermined all that.

IIRC, you pay a higher percentage of your income in taxes than Warren Buffet.

oops 10:33 EST

I like dangerous chinese toys. Edwards can go to hell.

"lightening round" yuck...

Barack is correct to note that the price of oil is being hyped due to risk rather than supply and demand.

DK: "Iraq is about oil"

"Saber rattling against Iran is driving up the price of oil"

"The President and the Veep should be subject to impeachment"

"Pre-emption as a concept is unworthy of the US"

DK hit 4 outta 4 there.

Richardson: Get offa foreign oil? No duh!

Dodd: Sacrifice? Corporate Carbon Tax? A Possibility.

Edwards: "Natural disasters are a national responsibility" Strewth!

Edwards sez part of "being smart" means involving local efforts to rebuild rather than wasteful contracts to intl concerns. That make sense.

Hil: Alternate Minimum Tax? Is Rangel right? Hard to say. Hil's right about Bush's cronies prospering while the middle class slides down the shitter. A Fair and Progressive Tax system? Did she just say "Freeze" the estate tax? Try BRING IT BACK!!

Obama: COLA is going up to the point where saving is just a dream fer too many folks while off-shore accounts in the Caymens are ripping off folk who aren't in the 1 per center club. Obama hit that one out of the park.

DK: Hedge Funds? 16% tax rate? WTF?! Harry Reid don't wanna change that? Wotta jerk! Make the Hedge funds accountable. The tAx system redistributes the wealth upwards. It's a clas war and the wrong side is winnig. Nice speech especially the close on Impeachment.

Edwards: Extra-ordinary corruption in the system.
Debt Relief stolen by Vultures. Blackwater are "mercenaries" Nice 'un Johnny! The system doesn't work and we can't leave this mess to the kids. Go back to the original intentions of the Founding Fathers. God damn it's nice to here impassioned speeches on important subjects.

TBC.

Be Well.

Richardsom wants to extend the school day

LOL

It's not the quantity but the quality of time spent in school that counts.

Kucinich idea for daycare is better than richardsons longer days.

The democrats want to solve the education problem by throwing Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money, at it.

What a surprise.

Um, Eb, no it's not

Yes it is. I climbed into an AMT penalty 4 years ago and I was hearing about how unfair it was before that. They have no intention to change it.

What's your answer, bowa?

One laugh line in this whole debate.

How lame is that.

What's your answer, bowa?

about what?

Education.

I missed who got the last word in before the break.

Doesn't matter -- nobody won round three. They were all lame. But that's not entirely the candidates fault, the questions were horrible.

Edumacation?!

Why aint Johnny and Suzy learning?

Fuck NCLB.

Science and Math proficiency must be raised.

Teachers must be paid a real wage.

Global Warring = Global Warming.

Invest in smart young folk!

Edwards: Two America's includes Two School systems.

Nice.

Some great ideas all around the board.

30 seconds aint long enuff fer this.

Last break.

BRB.

Be Well.

Clinton laid an egg on the Rangel/AMT question. "I'm going to have a solution" is not a solution.

Education.

School choice is the way to go. It gets parents more involved. And parental involvement is the key to success in education.

30 seconds aint long enuff fer this

As usual, the media sucks balls.

Bushs daddy, though, is definitely an ass raping pedophile....posted by pedophilebob

I have to drop this in this thread to discuss something important :-(

Nice rhetoric, bowa. But no specifics.

You should run.

Fuck the lightning round.

Nice rhetoric, bowa. But no specifics.

start another thread about it. And we can debate the issue.

In the meantime, I'm following the debate
on this one..

This isn't a gameshow...our MEDIA SUCKS!

Fuck the lightning round.

They are all lightining rounds it seems.

One laugh line in this whole debate.

Thousand of American Troops dead unneccessarily.

Many more injured for life some physically, some mentally, some both.

Rich getting richer,
Poor getting poorer.
Faith is government almost non-existent.

"How lame is that"?

Be Well.

I dare anyone here to use 30 seconds of talking to say anything deep or intelligent to solve a large problem.

We used to have debates that went on for days. Now we get the "lightning round" and the public and the candidates allow the MSM to do this.

We get the morons in office we DESERVE for being so lazy.

The democrats want to solve the helathcare problem by throwing Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money, at it.


Big surprise

We used to have debates that went on for days.

Lincoln-Douglas was an all day affair.

"Medicare for all"-- Dennis Kucinich

LOL

Bowa- they could probably pay for these things if the upper 5% stopped getting bushs tax cuts.

And you have no answer to solve any problems but a repeated, and stupid, talking point about democratic spending.(while the dumbfuck you voted for twice has wasted more money than liberal carter)

Big surprise.

I like Richardson's idea about mandatory servive to the country -- but it should be at least 2-4 years

And you have no answer to solve any problems but a repeated, and stupid, talking point about democratic spending.

I'm followg the deabte and just commenting on it on this thread. We can debate in length on other threads.

Obama got chastized for not following the lightning round rules and he started to stumble and seem to be unsure -- very unpresidential.

Don't waste space spamming your insipid comments, bowa.

And you have no answer to solve any problems but a repeated, and stupid, talking point about....

welcome to the DR and 95% of all threads (comments made mostly by liberals)

Obama got chastized for not following the lightning round rules and he started to stumble and seem to be unsure -- very unpresidential.

Posted by Bowa at 2007-10-30 10:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Make a thread about it. Been a while since you slimed Obama with a bad article/headline.

I like Dodd's take on illgal aliens getting drivers licenses. - they shouldn't.

Hillary dissembling. And stumbling. Dodd nailed her.
with his "Beuracratic nightmare" comment

Don't waste space spamming your insipid comments

again, welcome to the DR.

"That's a Beuruacratic nightmare." Sure is.

Hillary is on the ropes on the drivers license issue and true to form -- she blames it on Bush

LOL

Hillary is getting dog piled. Good.

Edards is piling on Hilalry now. Obama is also.

Hillary got busted on double-talk also known as "Clinton-speak"

How about we just DEPORT ILLEGALS instead of giving them special drivers licenses? Jesus...

And fuck Russert for asking about UFO's. What a dick.

Kucinich talking about his UFO experience.

The flying saucer is probably waiting outside the door to take him away after the debate.

Did Kuku really see a UFO?

Too precious--


Has anyone here ever seen a UFO??


Murphy

I've seen a UFO.

It was probably a military craft. Kucinich wasn't talking about aliens ffs.

Funny reply by Obama.

Obama scores a laughline on the "other life in the universe" issue and takes advantage by saying he's concerned about people living here on earth.

Exchange of the night

What a bunch of pot heads..


Murphy

Dodd jsut made the cover of next months "High Times"

I expect some folks to start slobbering over dodd's position on MJ

UFO means "unidentified Flying Object" Could be a meteor, airplane, ect. It doesn't mean "aliens in a saucer".

Grow up Tim Russert. You too, Bowa.

Wow Rudy again


Alllllright!!!!!

Obama missed an opportunity with the halloween question

Yes, again, no sense of humor other than perhaps Biden.

Russert needs to retire.

round three goes to Obama.

And Obama won the night. Hillary was 2nd, Edwards and Biden tied for 3rd.

Kucinich's wife is not THAT good looking.

I'm very tired of Russert's lame "gotcha questions", and the fact that he puts Cheney's balls in his mouth.

Hillary might have even come in 3rd, with Edwards 2nd.

Kucinich's wife is not THAT good looking.

Posted by eberly at 2007-10-30 11:04 PM | Reply | Flag

I'd like to see what you dip your wick in, eb.

Kucinich's wife is not THAT good looking.

She's pretty damn hot. I love redheads.

All of these candidates are serious folk.

They also have good hearts and good senses of humour.

The difference between the Dems and the Reps at this point in time is the difference between Night and Day.

The GOPhers are gonna be eaten alive by this crowd.

Not for Profit Health care is the way, the light and the path.

Interesting question on the Aviation industries ills and woes.

The Aeroflot joke was as funny as it was sad (cos it's true).

Drivers licenses to illegal immigrants, Hillary?

Hil agrees with Spitzer? WTF?! Wonder if CChris agrees? Not!

It's a PRIVILEGE not a right.

Dodd is correct. Hil is wrong.

A bureaucratic nightmare, indeed.

Ooh an internets question!

Gov Guidelines on internet content?

To save the kiddies?

Slipperry fucking slope people!

A real issue?

Obama quick to note that Hillary is not so much nuanced as she is difficult to understand.

Obama agrees with Spitzer too? WTF?!

DK on the UFO. "I saw something"

"Carter saw one too"

"More people in the US have seen UFO's than agree with Bush" See DK is FUNNY! The good kind.

Obama flipped the life on other worlds question around quite humourously and effectively.

Softballl question on Cancer to Hillary?

Quel suprise.

Hil is quick to point out Bush is the anti-science POTUS.

Decriminalising Marijuana?

Edwards sez it "sends the wrong signal"

Dodd sez "Too many folks in jails"

Dodd wins that one.

Biden wants to "Shut Down Imports from China"

That's new.

Where's Rudy? That's funny too!

Two sided Mitt Romney mask fer Obama's Halloween question? That's kinda cute.

Okey Dokey. Spuddish Shout out to Tim Russet Potato and Brian "The Giant Head" Jennings.

THAT's how ya run a debate.

Good show kids.

Be Well.

So that was fun. the GOP debate had a lot more electricity, humor and more aggressive attacks between the candidates then this one.

But as a republican, it's not like I can be an impartial observer.

Russert--Mr. Potato Head--did better at the last debate.

But how can these folks say that giving driver licenses to illegals is acceptable.??

Too much pot....

What would they show to prove who they are? Did they bring dcouments when they climbed the cyclone fence?

That's why they like pointed cowboy boots you know--they grip the fence better. ;o)

And if they got a DL--then the gov't would know who they were and could go them easier.

And why get a real ID when they are using a fake one??

Spitzer is a bonehead.

Murphy

I'd like to see what you dip your wick in, eb.

Posted by Alexandrite

I'm sure you would. Bowa, I like redheads also. She is attractive but after seeing everyone's comments I expected more.

They also have good hearts and good senses of humour.

You are on crack.

The republican debates are insane. I can't even watch them anymore...it's like a room full of pussies pretending to be Psychopathic cavemen.

*I wanna torture!*

**No, I torture bigger!**

***Me biggest!***

****Let me call my lawyer.****

And poor Ron Paul sits alone with the constitution.

Wow, the media is ganging up on Hillary. in the aftershow.

obama and edwards bloodied her.
That is for sure.

Here's my prediction:

After all this, Stephen Colbert will beat half these guys in South Carolina.

Rudy rarely reads prepared speeches and when he does he isn't prone to ripping off the text from others.

That was a slam and a half--goes to when Biden got busted for plagerizing.


Murphy

"Rudy rarely reads prepared speeches and when he does he isn't prone to ripping off the text from others."

Why do they even quote moronic campaign spokespeople insulting the other candidates? Who cares what she thinks? Quote Giuliani, not his gophers.

If Colbert does a second place (or some percentage) he could pull those electoral votes to him and away from the other candidate.

SC can split their EV's ...


Murphy

Rcade--

They are all in the business of insulting someone.

If it isn't Elizabeth, it's Michelle, or Bill, or --well you know...


Murphy

Why do they even quote moronic campaign spokespeople insulting the other candidates? Who cares what she thinks? Quote Giuliani, not his gophers

Rcade, because it's unseemly for a candisate to voluntarily go for the jugular in response to an opponenets digs before the debate is even over.

It's far more presidential, if Rudy is on the campaign trail, and a reporter asks him about Biden's comment and then he responds.

Knowing Rudy, he's probably got a real zinger ready to go.

Poor Hillary. Too bad she finally is called out for the two-face she is. Great job by Dodd, Edwards and Obama.

Hillary complains about the "secrecy" of the Bush administration, yet won't release her and slick willy's records from the archives till 2012.

Wonder why?

I actually watched the entire thing. What a disgrace. All fluff, no substance.

College for everyone? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA!!!

Formerlib, I did too. Yeah, that answer about not releasing the records was one of the better gems of the evening. Red tape etc. my ass.

The gloves are off.

I think even the media will start beating up her now.

They might love her husband, but they've always disliked Hillary.

Bowa,


You've got it backwards.


The media has always loved Hillary.


The media was really not all that friendly with Bill - kinda contentious, actually.

Jeffj, did you watch Mr. Hardball, Chris Matthews last night after the debate? He wasn't saying anything good about Hillary. He thinks the immigration issue will be a big problem for her in the general election.

I disagree Jeff.. Bill charmed them. They might agree with Hillary politically, but nobody in the media would ever say she was dun to be around.

And as I pointed out a couple of weeks ago, I could tell from the snide remarks many in the media were saying about her over her refusal to be accessible to them, that they were just hoping that someone would start bloodying Hillary a bit -- so they couldget out all their pent up resentment against her.

I think the Media now has a new narrative to run with for the democrats -- It is Hillary, the double=talker, vs Edwards and Obama the passioante truthtellers who tell us where they stand.

I disagree Jeff.. Bill charmed them. They might agree with Hillary politically, but nobody in the media would ever say she was fun to be around.

And as I pointed out a couple of weeks ago, I could tell from the snide remarks many in the media were saying about her over her refusal to be accessible to them, that they were just hoping that someone would start bloodying Hillary a bit -- so they couldget out all their pent up resentment against her.

I think the Media now has a new narrative to run with for the democrats -- It is Hillary, the double=talker, vs Edwards and Obama the passioante truthtellers who tell us where they stand.

He thinks the immigration issue will be a big problem for her in the general election.

illegal immigration is the democrats achilled heal in 2008.

illegal immigration is the democrats achilled heal in 2008.

I don't think the issue plays like you think it does. A lot of Hispanic Americans feel demonized by the immigration rhetoric coming from Republicans these days, and it'll hurt them in the election.

The Bushies have made sure that Immigration is an issue by not providing support for Federal law enforcement in that area, leaving it up to states to make tough decisions like Spitzer has made to try to deal with a Federal problem.

Hil was right about the failure of the Congress and the President to pass Immigration reform, and this DL program is the kind of poor but perhaps necessary program we end up with.

But for all the talk about "double-speak" from the vampirish media about Hil, she was honest enough not to just brush off the answer when it involved the Gov of her own state, and smart enough not to commit to the details of Spitzer's program.

""illegal immigration is the democrats achilled heal in 2008.""

I think it will be a little hard to sell that after eight years of a Republican president who refused to enforce the law. Democrats may not really be any better but Republicans have virtually recruited Mexicans because of cheap labor.

The immigration issue still cuts both ways. Its the business interests that thrive due to open borders because they can pay less in wages and benefits will increasing profits for those higher up the food chain. That cuts against the Republicans.

The other facts are this issue has set unattended for the entire length of Bush's Presidency and his tenure as governor! If the Republicans who controlled Congress from 2001 until 2007 didn't see fit to enact reform, its going to be a hard-sell against the Democrats who don't yet have the power of the Presidency to advocate meaningful change.

Sometimes I wish Chris Matthews would stop trying to pontificate that he knows what America is thinking because he doesn't. On the driver's license issue, the irresponsible position is one that allows illegals to operate vehicles on our roads without any record of who they are, whether or not they're proficiently skilled, or even more importantly, insured. Dodd showed his New England elitism by declaring that driving is a privilege. Would he say the same thing about riding a horse in Colonial times? Vehicles are transportation and the essence of liberty. The state regulates the age and skillset necessary to operate legally on our roads, but the very notion of "implied consent" as it refers to drivers giving up specific constitutional protections by taking to the road underscores that driving itself is a right under our laws.

The facts are there are tens of millions of illegals currently in the states. Not having a way to identify them or to make sure that they're proficiently trained to operate motor vehicles is a safety issue as much as it is an immigration issue. The first time an undocumented illegal smashes into a school bus and authorities have no way to identify the suspect, this issue will take on a different light. Think it through people, don't just react to the visceral notion of illegals. There still needs to be accountability regardless.

As one pundit said, when you have 5-6 guys gang up on one candidate and they don't deliver a knock out punch, they only make the one candidate stronger.

-Chris Matthews would stop trying to pontificate

Matthews has become an old wet hen trying to squawk loud enough to make any of the 3 front runners come on his show to defend themselves.

I have lost what little respect I had for him and Timmah.

The first time an undocumented illegal smashes into a school bus and authorities have no way to identify the suspect, this issue will take on a different light.
Posted by tonyroma

Tony, they seem pretty good at finding ways to fool employers, goverment etc. A drivers license will not make them anymore accountable if they are involved in a accident.

I think it will be a little hard to sell that after eight years of a Republican president who refused to enforce the law.

You mean the Republican President that the democrats actually support on immigration, don't you?

Everyone knows that the GOP split with Bush on immigration.

As one pundit said, when you have 5-6 guys gang up on one candidate and they don't deliver a knock out punch, they only make the one candidate stronger.

Except when its Craig Crawford, who couldn't find his ass with both hands tied behind his back! Hillary got blasted last night upon the very issues I've been raising for the last few months. I disagree with Richardson, the disputes weren't personal, they went to the core reason she claims would make her a better President than anyone else, her experience and judgment. Her true record on both is spottier than she likes to admit, and its completely fair game to point out these glaring

Its getting old that any criticism of Hillary just can't be allowed. Its a great rule...FOR HILLARY, but it isn't the job of the other candidates to lie down and let her obfuscate around them. To me, the strongest points against her remain Iraq/Iran and the votes she never should have cast. Bush cannot be trusted, and Edwards phrased it perfectly that if/when he attacks Iran, will Hillary's then response be another "If I knew now what I didn't then...." That isn't good judgment, its triangulation, plain and simple.

A drivers license will not make them anymore accountable if they are involved in a accident.

So would you rather have millions driving on our roads without knowing whether they're skilled enough? We've got to deal with reality, not on how we wish things were. Transit is not a privilege, its part and parcel to individual liberty, and while illegals may not deserve equality under our laws, I believe thats what our Constitution dictates, correct?

As Dodd quickly pointed out the public health aspects of allowing illegals access to vaccines and such, isn't it equally a public health issue that drivers on our roads be tested for the skills needed for being there? A drivers license is not citizenship, it shows that the bearer passed the test allowing them the right to drive. I don't see anything to be frightened about in this scenario, particularly since illegals will have a different license than American citizens.

-any criticism of Hillary just can't be allowed

It's laughable when hedge fund hawks like Obama and Edwards want to point out someone else's fundraising.


What the Honorable Bill Richardson was pointing out was the "untrustworthy" and "dishonest" insinuations about a person he knows much better than either of the other candidates do.

Of course, he will now be slandered as some kind of Hil shill for being courageous enough to speak what he believes when he really did not have to.

What the Honorable Bill Richardson was pointing out was the "untrustworthy" and "dishonest" insinuations about a person he knows much better than either of the other candidates do.


Oh look at Corky. One Hillary shill defending another hillary shill.

How cute.

So would you rather have millions driving on our roads without knowing whether they're skilled enough? We've got to deal with reality, not on how we wish things were. Transit is not a privilege, its part and parcel to individual liberty, and while illegals may not deserve equality under our laws, I believe thats what our Constitution dictates, correct?
Posted by tonyroma

OK Tony, so let's say we have identified them as being the cause of a accident. Now what? Now if you want to combine that with proof of insurance, similar to what someone convicted of a D.U.I. must provide, I may agree. I just didn't here that from anyone last night.

-How cute.

I've told you for the last time, Bowa.

I wouldn't date you if you were the last Bush shill on earth.

Oh, you are?

OK Tony, so let's say we have identified them as being the cause of a accident. Now what? Now if you want to combine that with proof of insurance, similar to what someone convicted of a D.U.I. must provide, I may agree. I just didn't here that from anyone last night.

And you won't when people are given just 30 seconds to respond. We have to be smarter than that or we become willing dupes in the media's complicity of setting the agendas THEY want, not necessarily those that are important to US!

So JUSTGETTINGALONG who allowed all this illegal immigration???
Who benefited by it???
Gee....who's agenda does it serve????

And you won't when people are given just 30 seconds to respond.
Posted by tonyroma

Their agenda isn't limited to a 30 second response. In all honesty, it's disapointing that noone (Republican or Democrat) can offer a comprehensive plan to deal with illegal immigration. As Jest pointed out, it is a huge problem that needs to be addressed sooner, not later.

""In all honesty, it's disapointing that noone (Republican or Democrat) can offer a comprehensive plan to deal with illegal immigration.""

That is nonsense. We all know exactly what to do about illegal immigration but because of corporate lobbyists no one is willing to do what is necessary. When we start jailing employers for hiring illegal aliens the problem will cease to exist. And puhleeeez don't even give me that old argument that they don't know they are illegal....if they can't speak English it is a pretty good bet they are illegal.

"So JUSTGETTINGALONG who allowed all this illegal immigration???"

Every administration since WAAAAY back. No need to spend all this time fixing blame. Let's just elect an administration which will FIX THE PROBLEM! The current administration doesn't want to and too many of the candidates running today don't want to either. Amnesty ain't gonna fix it! Hell, Reagan did that back in the '80's. It doesn't seem to have fixed it, does it?

"illegal immigration is the democrats achilled heal in 2008."

HA! It's the Achilles heel of the U.S. Just LOOK:

1. An Achilles' heel is a fatal weakness in spite of overall strength, actually or potentially leading to downfall.
2. While the mythological origin refers to a physical vulnerability, metaphorical references to other attributes or qualities that can lead to their downfall are common.

3. The death of Achilles was not mentioned in Homer's Iliad, but appeared in later Greek and Roman poetry and drama concerning events after the Iliad, later in the Trojan War.

4. Here and in the myths surrounding the war, Achilles died from a heel wound as the result of an arrow - possibly poisoned - fired by Paris.

5. According to a myth arising later, his mother, Thetis, had dipped the infant Achilles in the river Styx, holding onto him by his heel, and he became invulnerable where the waters touched him -- that is, everywhere but the areas covered by her thumb and forefinger -- implying that only a heel wound could have been his downfall.

6. Another version of Achilles becoming close to immortal involves Thetis' attempt to make him a god. She would rub his whole body with ambrosia and then hold him over a fire every night.

7. One day, Achilles' father, Peleus, came in the home and caught Thetis holding Achilles over the fire. Peleus did not know that Thetis was trying to immortalize Achilles.

8. Thetis was scared and fled out of fear. This possibly coincides with the story that Thetis left Achilles at a very young age.

9. The use of "Achilles' heel" as an English expression for "area of weakness, vulnerable spot" dates only to 1855.

10. The Achilles' heel as a singular weakness has become a clich in superhero comics, originating mainly from superman's weakness against Kryptonite

11. This concept is related to Siegried in the Nibelungenlied.

12. It's also not unlike the Indian tale of Duryodhana in the Mahabharatha.

13. Come to think of it, isn't it also a bit like the story of the Aesir deity Balder in Norse mythology?

That is nonsense. We all know exactly what to do about illegal immigration but because of corporate lobbyists no one is willing to do what is necessary. When we start jailing employers for hiring illegal aliens the problem will cease to exist. And puhleeeez don't even give me that old argument that they don't know they are illegal....if they can't speak English it is a pretty good bet they are illegal.

Posted by danni

Danni, did you read my post? Who is running for President that agrees with you? Cause "we" ain't running, are "we"?

Their agenda isn't limited to a 30 second response.

Last night it was. The topic came up in the lightening round, not during the general debate.

""In all honesty, it's disapointing that noone (Republican or Democrat) can offer a comprehensive plan to deal with illegal immigration.""

Thats because the problem has no simple comprehensive answer that the majority will agree with. Danni is correct above. There isn't a general concensus about what to do, and until there is, this argument will continue.

You need to lay off that a little, JESTJACKINGOFF. 'Pears to me you might not just be losing some eyesight, but you are experiencing brain drain as well.

So JUSTGETTINGALONG who allowed all this illegal immigration???
Who benefited by it???
Gee....who's agenda does it serve????


It serves both parties because both parties are trying to cultivate the hispanic voting bloc.


You know full well the Democrats haven't done (and won't do) jack shit about illegal immigration, Danni.

'Pears to me you might not just be losing some eyesight, but you are experiencing brain drain as well.

Zounds! Brain drain?

1. A brain drain or human capital flight is an emigration of trained and talented individuals ("human capital") to other nations or jurisdictions, due to conflicts, lack of opportunity, health hazards where they are living or other reasons.

2. It parallels the term "capital flight" which refers to financial capital that is no longer invested in the country where its owner lived and earned it.

3. Investment in higher education is lost when a trained individual leaves and does not return. Also, whatever social capital the individual has been a part of is reduced by his or her departure.

4. Spokesmen for the Royal Society of London coined the expression "brain drain" to describe the outflow of scientists and technologists to Canada and the United States in the early 1950s. Its counterpart is brain gain in the areas to which talent migrates.

5. Brain drain can occur either when individuals who study abroad and complete their education do not return to their home country, or when individuals educated in their home country emigrate for higher wages or better opportunities.

6. The second form is arguably worse, because it drains more resources from the home country.

7. This phenomenon is perhaps most problematic for developing nations, where it is widespread. In these countries, higher education and professional certification are often viewed as the surest path to escape from a troubled economy or difficult political situation.

Strewth!

"Zounds! Brain drain?

1. A brain drain or human capital flight is an emigration of trained and talented individuals ("human capital") to other nations or jurisdictions, due to conflicts, lack of opportunity, health hazards where they are living or other reasons."

Yes, indeed...when referring to those with brains in their BIG heads. However, in YOUR case.....

"However, in YOUR case....."

I'm listening, Humpty Dumpty.

And puhleeeez don't even give me that old argument that they don't know they are illegal....if they can't speak English it is a pretty good bet they are illegal.

Posted by danni at 2007-10-31 10:51 AM |

Take a wild guess what party blocks any useful measure intended to go after those employed illegally? Who also happens to be in bed with every pro immigration/illegal group? I know this same party as well as their mouthpieces love to blame it all on corporate lobbyists and Republicans. But the last time I looked corporate lobbyists are not blocking ICE from going after employers. Or restricts employers from inquiring or questioning possible hires if they suspect they are illegal. Take a look at every city that has decided to act on their own and pass laws because the Fed. Gov. still has their heads in the sand. Then see who has tried to block every law passed. I can promise you the vast majority doesn't lean right.

Another full year of political vitriol ahead of us.

Krist on a Crutch !

as for illegal immigration, what is being done locally in your area, here in charlotte, the county sheriff is enforcing a fed program called 287 G i think that is correct, but it is a program that is increasing the number of illegals identified and deported in the county jail. the sheriff has been so successful he has lobbied and received a fed grant to build a 1500 bed facility to house illegals until they are deported. obiviously the number of illegals in this country is understated. oh yeah this sheriff is a dem too, surprise there. what isnt a shocker is that the local media is trying to kill this guy with the press, local illegal groups are interviewed about how cruel this program is,etc and medi they refuse to report that the last dui death was the result of drunk illegal, or the shoot out last nite involved illegals.(look at the crime stats in cali and the % that involved illegals) the schools here under pressure to educate kids that dont speak english, they are draining the social services in this county at a rapid rate, and yes they want to raise taxes to pay for it! the sheriff is taking a job with DHS in DC and the dems here are wasting no time attacking his successor who also support this fed program. why would you oppose a program that helps your community? so again what are community leaders elsewhere doing on the immigration issue, cause GOV CO. isnt doing anything meaningful.

""Take a wild guess what party blocks any useful measure intended to go after those employed illegally?""

Both but the party that holds the executive branch is the one responsible to enforce the law. I think the corporate dollars that flow into both Dem and Republican coffers prevent any real attempt to solve the problems of illegal immigration because the corporations that contribute those dollars want wages reduced and a surplus of labor is a sure way to accomplish that goal.
If we had federally funded campaigns which prohibited all contributions I think immigration would be solved pretty quickly.
As long as we allow our government to be bought by corporate dollars we shouldn't expect it to work for us, we should expect it to work against us...as it does.

Bull

wow danni, i have never agreed with you on anything but your post above is spot on as they say.
to rapidly slow immigration, we must take away their jobs, go after their employers. make many expensive examples and others will fall in line.

Both but the party that holds the executive branch is the one responsible to enforce the law

Posted by danni at 2007-10-31 12:20 PM |

Not giving any points to Bush on any immigration policy. He did in fact sign into law a immigration reform back in Nov 06. My problem is ICE tries to send out letters to employers who have suspect SS numbers and or Fed Tax ID numbers which don't match up. Lo and behold some pro illegal group files a lawsuit and it is stopped. The vast majority of these groups are in the pockets of the Dems. You don't see any leading Republicans attending these pro illegal rallies in support. So as much as those on the left would like to blame it all on the Repubs and Bush or Corporate America, one only has to follow the money trail to see who in fact doesn't want the laws on the book being enforced. Like I posted earlier about cities taking it upon themselves to pass laws. It is not Corporate America fighting these local Governments trying to do what is best for their people.

EDWARDS AND OBAMA TRY TO GET INTO HILLARY`S ASS. THESE GUYS ARE GOOD-LOOKING,THEY CAN EASILY GET SOME YOUNGER CHICS.DAMN, SHE `S 60 YRS OLD....

Dems Target Clinton in Debate

EDWARDS AND OBAMA TRY TO GET INTO HILLARY`S ASS. THESE GUYS ARE GOOD-LOOKING,THEY CAN EASILY GET SOME YOUNGER CHICS.DAMN, SHE `S 60 YRS OLD....

Posted by BADAOPHAY at 2007-10-31 03:17 PM | Repl

The headline said nothing about Edwards and Obama jumping Hillary's bones.
Maybe you have a long repressed little oedipus complex going on for yourself, hmmmm, bad boy?

Of course Hillary is going to be targeted -- she's the frontrunner.

If Hillary wants to play with the boys, she better learn how to play a lot rougher rather than have her campaign staff go out and whine the day after the debate everyone else was too tough on her.

Posted by BADAOPHAY at 2007-10-31

Ba Ba Badaophy -- you were loud and clear

Hillary has no intention of ever bringing our troops home from Iraq, she will use military force on Iran, and she caves in to every special interest group around -- including the special interest groups from India to whom she legislates to give them tens of thousands of H1-B visas.

Hillary is even more dangerous in the White House when it comes to using military force on Iran and all the other countries on the Neocons' hit list because she'll feel that as a woman she has "something to prove." dangerous.

VOTE HILLARY -- VOTE AMERICAN WORKERS OUT OF A JOB
VOTE HILLARY -- VOTE BEING IN IRAQ FOREVER

Stand clear!!


It's a right-tighty circle-jerk.

Hillary: "I believe illegal immigrants can have driver licenses" Hillary pleasing her party.

Hillary2: "I believe it's not a good idea to give out free driver licenses to illegals for security reasons"
Hillary pleasing the rest of the country.

Opposition: "I keep hearing two different stories which one is it?"

LOL

The Governor of New York and Hillary (Senate NY) are attempting to conduct voter fraud by giving out voter registrations with each driver's license. Of course, the driver's license is sufficient to prove your right to vote, if registered ... and whether you are a citizen or not!

New York is filled to the brim with illegal immigrants from every nation on this Earth, and Hillary and the Democratic party know it ... and approve of giving illegals license to vote and drive!!!

It is the ends-justifies-the-means attitude so well practiced by the loyal NAZI who did *anything* to win for their gang ...

The Democratic Party of the United States is a party of gangsters ever willing to stuff the ballot box in order to win win win for the JACKASSES!

Walking Eagal will NEVER answer a question with a direct answer as long as the liberal press allows her to get away with it.

***NOTE TO DEMS***

Bush is not running. How pathetic did they look bringing up Bush every two seconds? "We'll do it better than the current administration".

So tiresome.

She's crying on her website that "they are now ganging up on her" (meaning her peers in the Democratic primary).

If she can't take the heat of a primary among similarly minded candidates, she might as well get out of the fire now. She's far too weak.

What is she going to do if she had to face major heat and decisive decision making as a President or as a Presidential contender. She can't ride the fence on every issue forever.

She's appears too weak and indecisive and overly political for my tastes. I far prefer Dennis Kucinich, Edwards or Ron Paul.